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T206 Reference / Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc..and, let's get your inputs
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https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...dWillis12x.jpg Nov 2006, Barry Sloate informed me that he had acquired a T206 collection including 300 cards with Sovereign backs. These cards would be in his November auction. I won 262 of these cards (including 38 HOFers). Having 60 - Sovereign cards to start with, I was determined to complete this set. I do not need the "Big 6", nor Lundgren, nor the Southern Leaguers (48 cards), I thought this project would be easy. However, early in this game I realized that the big challenge would be to figure out which subjects were Not Printed with Sovereign backs. By the Fall of 2007, I had completed this Sovereign set....and, I was confident that I had figured out which T206's were not printed with Sovereign backs. And, I am happy to say that my list of No-Prints have withstood the test of time. A complete SOVEREIGN-only set comprises of 402 different subjects. And, if you are really "gung ho"....go for a master SOVEREIGN set comprising of 476 cards. During the Sovereign press runs, American Litho (ALC) introduced a new feature into the T206's....the 350/460 series. ALC selected from the 350-only series 6 subjects **. And, printed them with Sovereign 460 backs during the printing of the 460-only series (46 subjects). Note that the Sovereign 460 versions of these 6 subjects are considerably tougher to find relative to the regular 46 subjects in the 460-only series. Shown here are the Six Super-Prints with their SOVEREIGN 350 backs and their SOVEREIGN 460 backs...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obbSGCx50b.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...RedCobb25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign350x25b.jpg ------- https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gn350x25bk.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...gn350x25xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cematty25x.jpg............http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ematty25xy.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...luechasedk.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...asedkcap_1.jpg The 350/460 story continues in the following post with a complete array display of the 66 subjects (with Sovereign 350 backs) which ALC designated for the 350/460 series. ** Note.. Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these 6 subjects were printed in larger quantities, and with more Tobacco brands than any of the other subjects in the T206 set. In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot identifies these 6 guys as the " Super-Prints ". TED Z . |
This thread has become historic on our forum over time. Nicely done, Ted. Thanks for sharing!!
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SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpg<<http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg>>http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg Continuing from post #2, illustrated here are the 66 subjects that American Lithographic selected for the 350/460 series. American Litho printed the backs of these 66 cards using an apple green colored ink (instead of the deep green seen on the backs of all the other SOVEREIGN cards). For more info on this topic, check-out this thread posted in 2009....Sovereign phantom "350/460" series Here is my concept of a 72-card sheet arrangement of these 66 subjects (Super-Prints are double-printed **) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bx.jpg v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obConDav9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yLDoyElb9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raDouDow9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...osLajLak9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MurpNich9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aMcInMul9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lPfeReul9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eySnoSta9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...trCYoSte9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lWillWhi9x.jpg The next two posts will get more into the "nitty-gritty" of this mystifying 350/460 series......especially regarding their front/back combos. ** Note I show the super-prints Double-Printed (D-P) on this sheet, since several large T206 surveys have indicated that the 6 super-prints were D-P. TED Z . |
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg 350/460 series subjects A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series...... 460-type backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...series25xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...factory42b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LENOXx37_1.jpg ............. Factory #42 ............. 350-type backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DRUMx25b_1.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CxSC350x25.jpg Assorted backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Tolstoi25x.jpg Stay tuned for the "rhyme-n-reason" of the mutually-exclusive front/back combos found with the 460-type backs in this 350/460 series. TED Z . |
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Thanks, I really appreciate your compliments, Leon. TED Z . |
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Very cool Ted...It's awesome to see so many of your t's in a bunch! This is the best I can do for now...a few odd remaining t's!
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T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg 350/460 series subjects Now, continuing our study of the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series.....although 22 T-brands were illustrated in the previous post, not all the 63 subjects were printed with the rare AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, BROAD LEAF 460, Red HINDU, and UZIT backs. A theory was first presented in a thread posted April 2010 which hypothesized that the AB 460 and UZIT cards were printed as pairs. Also, BL 460 and red HINDU cards were printed as pairs. Furthermore, these two sets of pairs are mutually exclusive. Refer to.... 350/460 mutually-exclusive cards ....post #14. I've constructed the following scans of the 350/460 series subjects in order to illustrate how the mutually-exclusive 460-type (rare) backs in this series resulted from American Lithographic separating these 63 subjects into two print groups. Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x25.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tCap460x42.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/rh.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eaf460back.jpg Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C. Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT Group A .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...1cards25xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards14x.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Group B http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards13x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14cards13x.jpg Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...auty460b34.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460 Refer to post #5 in this thread which displays a T206 collection of 33 different "scrap subjects" coinciding with the cards of Group A shown above...... ....why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive Stay tuned for the next Reference or Reflections. New topic....I'll surprise you ? TED Z . |
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Hey Pete Thanks for the "awesome"....it's one of my favorite adjectives. Judging from your scan, we both collect similar pieces of colorful cardboard (besides BB cards). Take care......hope to see you at the National this summer. TED Z . |
Good stuff Ted. Here's a snippet from one of my favorite T206 discovery threads. It was a 2008 thread--started by you--where what I call the "southern league paradox" was resolved collectively by the Net54 research community. Jamie Hull was a major contributor.
Scot http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...ern+Leaguers+- I'll link a few more of my favorite T206 discovery threads later. |
Ted,
Here is another gem where the 350/460 back profile was fleshed-out. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=220948&page=4 I think this thread is groundbreaking in describing the back profile for each and every subject in the 350/460 RP group, the superprint group and the 460-only group. Scot |
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Hi Scot That thread was very informative. Thanks for referencing it. And, I do miss Jamie Hull, he would chime in with some very meaningful info regarding T206's. TED Z . |
Hi Ted,
I would be remiss if I failed to mention my "Possible Heitman Errors" thread from February 2005 where I was taken to task by the late Joe P. for daring to question "The Monster" checklist, which at the time was regarded as gospel by some. [I think this was the first public "outing" of Ames (Hands at Chest) and Doyle (Throwing) as potential 150-onlys and Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves), Latham, Overall (Hands at Waist), Schaefer (Washington) and Tannehill (No "L") as potential 460-onlys--hard to believe that this has only been public information for 12 years since it is is now so commonly accepted]. http://t.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=76172 Have to chuckle now about Joe P.'s blowback. I'll always be grateful to the Net54 guys who came to my defense (including Brian Weisner, Joshua Levine, Rhett Yeakley and the late, great Jim Blumenthal) even though I was a newbie. And even Joe P. eventually came around. Scot |
Hi Ted,
Also have to cite the Net54 "Elite" surveys you spearheaded in 2007-2008 confirming that certain 150/350 guys were only available in the 350 series with the Piedmont 350 back. Those were classic. http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...amp%3B++SURVEY Scot |
TedZ wrote:
** Note.. Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these 6 subjects were printed in larger quantities, and with more Tobacco brands than any of the other subjects in the T206 set. In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot identifies these 6 guys as the " Super-Prints ". Lastly, Ted, thanks for this acknowledgement. The existence of the six "superprints" was probably the most interesting of the discoveries revealed in my first (2006) version of Inside T206. |
Hi Scot
Joe P. was quite a character, here's my story. In the early 1980's, I published several articles in Bob Lemke's BASEBALL CARDS magazine regarding 1948 - 1953 BOWMAN BB & FB sets. There were variations and certain printing anomalies regarding cards in these sets that were not well understood in the hobby back then....and, I clarified them. Joe P. was a serious collector of these sets, and when he read my articles, he thought I was a "genius". We met at the 1984 National in New Jersey. He was such a friendly guy who could talk about the various aspects of sports cards for hours. Twenty years later when I joined the Net54 forum, and began posting my collecting experiences and ideas regarding the T206 set, Joe turned against me by telling me that "I didn't know what I was talking about". When I posted some of my early theory's (or surveys), Joe would respond with negative comments. If I did not respond to his posted comments, he would then call me at home and tell me in no uncertain terms that I was wrong. And, there was no way that I could converse with him in a meaningful manner. Joe had a good life, in the Military, Airlines, and as an Actor. I like to think of Joe when we first met in the 1980's. And, then again in the 1990's at Sotheby's (when they conducted the auction that sold the "Gretzky Wagner"). TED Z . |
Ted,
Confused...i post #2 you say "ALC selected from the 350-only series 6 subjects.." then in post #4 you state there are "66" subjects in 350/460 series...then further on in post #8 you mention "63" subjects. maybe i am misreading subtle differences in each context? Good stuff, thanks for compiling in one thread. jim |
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Hi Jim The array of 66 subjects (in post #4) includes Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, and Bob Rhoades (who initially were intended to be continued into the 350/460 series). However, the Major League careers of these 3 guys ended prior to American Litho printing the 460-type backs. Thus, the 350/460 series consists of 63 subjects. TED Z . |
understood now...so the "6" in post #2 is a typo and should be "66" selected by ALC for 350/460, and then later 3 were not printed in the 460....
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In post #2......I introduce the 6 super-prints....then in post #4, I illustrate the 66 subjects that were intially selected to be included in the 350/460 series. These 66 guys are composed of the 6 super-prints and 60 additional subjects. But, as I have said, 3 of the 60 additional subjects were not printed because their Major League BB careers had ended. Therefore, the resulting 350/460 series comprises of the 6 super-prints and 57 other subjects v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpg V V http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obConDav9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yLDoyElb9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raDouDow9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...osLajLak9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MurpNich9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aMcInMul9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lPfeReul9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eySnoSta9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...trCYoSte9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lWillWhi9x.jpg TED Z . |
Ted,
Great story. Joe was a character. We had some good laughs on the phone before he passed. He was super friendly one-on-one. And, he had the ONLY copy of Schulte (Front View) Piedmont 350 in existence! (As you know he also had the Doyle Error). For years, Joe kept insisting on our calls that he had a copy of the then unconfirmed Schulte (Front View) with Piedmont 350 but could not figure out how to send me a scan! I believed he had the card, but was blown-away that he didn't have a scanner (or at least couldn't figure out how to use it). He was old school -- which is actually endearing considering we are talking about old baseball cards that are cherished across generations. Good stuff. Scot Quote:
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T206 Plank mystery
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg T206 Plank has been a mystery for 108 years. In Dec 2006, after a lot of research, my "wild imagination" formed a theory for this card's scarcity..... T206 Plank theory It was a popular thread with 113 responses; and, it is somewhat intricate. But I think you'll find it quite interesting. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xb.jpg I waited a long time to acquire this Plank, simply because I wanted one whose back was a SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30.....in order to complete my all--Sweet Cap, Factory #30 set. The majority of the Plank cards have Sweet Cap 350 backs. OK, Plank's card is really no mystery in my mind anymore, since I read Connie Mack's response to a Philadelphia sports writer circa 1910..... "The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, smokes, chews tobacco, nor swears...." ** Eddie Plank most likely informed ATC that he did not want his image portrayed on Tobacco cards. Being the low-keyed guy that he was, he didn't "hype" it up like Wagner did. Let's hear your thoughts on this subject ? ** "Connie Mack", by Norman Macht TED Z . |
Hi Scot
One of Joe's early squabbles with me was over the Schulte card. It wasn't that I questioned whether he had this card, I simply told him it was either a "scrap", or an anomaly. Also, I noted that if an EPDG card of Schulte were to appear, then I would be convinced that it was a legitimate issue. Well, we have yet to see an EPDG card. TED Z . |
It's hard to say whether the card is scrap. Looking at the card it is difficult to tell. And there are other unique front/back combos in T206. Heck, there are only two or three confirmed copies of Spencer with Piedmont 350 (although I recognize he exists with EPDG). I remain agnostic on Schulte 350's "scrapness."
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T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap11xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont350x13.jpg In 2008, a thread regarding an interesting 350-only series design that I refer to as the "A-B-C-D connection"...... T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection" Here are the 4 new Tobacco brands introduced during the printing of the 350-only Series....circa Spring / Summer 1910. The American Lithographic Co. artist designed the backs of the AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM having identical stylized FRAME and lettering. American Litho printed 190 subjects (listed here) to fill out the 350-only series (as confirmed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 and CYCLE 350 cards). Currently, the scarcer BROAD LEAF 350 and DRUM cards fall short of this 190 intended design by 13 subjects, and 65 subjects, respectively. More new BROAD LEAF 350 and DRUM cards have surfaced in recent years, and will continue to be discovered in the future. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7.../ABCDxT206.jpg The 190 subjects included in this series of these four T-brands Abbott Abstein Adkins Anderson Arellanes Armbruster Arndt Atz Barbeau Barry (A's) Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Beck Becker Beckley Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burke Burns Bush Butler Campbell Carr Carrigan Casey Cassidy Chance (portrait-yellow) Chappelle Charles Chase (portrait-blue) Chase (dark cap) Clancy Clark Clymer Cobb (portrait-red) Collins (A's) Congalton Cravath Cree Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Dessau Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Dubuc Dunn (Baltimore) Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Easterly Egan Engle Evers (bat-yellow sky) Ferguson Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Flanagan Fletcher Freeman Fromme Ganzel Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hartsel Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jackson Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Kruger Laporte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Malarkey Maloney Marquard (portrait) Marshall Mathewson (dark cap) McAleese McBride McCormick Mc Elveen McGann McGinley McGinnity McGlynn McIntyre (Detroit) Merritt Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Milligan Mitchell (Cinci) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago) Moran (Providence) Moriarty Mullin (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nattress Oakes Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelan Phelps Phillippe Pickering Poland Purtell Quillen Quinn Randall Raymond Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schmidt (portrait) Schreck Scott Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Stephens Strang Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Taylor Thielmann Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop White (Buffalo) Willett Wilson Wright Irv Young Zimmerman Here's my Frank Delehanty A-B-C-D connection......these are tough sub-sets to complete......so, let's see yours ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ntyABCDx50.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyABCDx50b.jpg Stay tuned....the next post here will expand on this sub-set. TED Z . |
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap11xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont350x13.jpg Expanding on the A-B-C-D sub-set, Darren (posts #65 & 73) of T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection" added the 1910 COUPON cards, whose backs are identical to the stylized design of the A-B-C-D cards. Providing us proof that the timeline of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) set was issued Spring / Summer of 1910. The blue Chase is my favorite T206 subject. If a DRUM card of Mr. Chase ever shows up, I might have a chance to complete this A - B - C - C - D sub-set. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uplcate75x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxCOxCYx25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg TED Z . |
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Posted By: William Heitman This is Bill Heitman. Most, if not all, of the errors referred to were caught within about a year of publication of The Monster. They were all errors made by the publisher that I didn't catch in proofing the book. He also added the Farrah pictures without my knowledge. But, Denny was a great friend, and I let that slide. My original working checklist does not have these "errors". I notified everyone via articles in Trader Speaks of the publishing errors. Incidently, I have probably had in excess of 1,000,000 T206s in my possession. My collection was able to fill about 4800 spots on my working checklist. Also--thanks for the compliments. Bill |
1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg There has been much controversy on this forum as to whether the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards belong to the T206 "family". And, much of this is due to mis-information. So, here are the facts.... as Detective Sergeant Joe Friday (from the TV series, Dragnet) would ask...." Just the facts, man ? "...... The Macon (Georgia) Telegraph newspaper was running advertisements introducing ATC's COUPON cigarette brand in the Spring of 1910. And, as shown, in the prior post here, the 1910 COUPON cards' backs were printed with the same stylized design as the backs of the AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards (which we know were issued in the Spring / Summer of 1910). The group of 48 subjects (Major Leaguers) were selected from an early print run of the 350-only series (illustrated in the 48-card array shown here). And, the Southern Association subjects (20 cards) were printed from the 48 - Southern Leaguers in the T206 set. Furthermore, unlike the T213-2 and T213-3 cards (with blue captions), the 1910 COUPON cards' captions were printed with Brown ink. The minor exception with the 1910 COUPON (with respect to the T206 cards) is that American Litho printed the 1910 COUPON cards on "thinner" cardboard. This was done simply because these cards were not intended to serve as Cigarette pack " stiffeners ". The initial marketing of the COUPON cigarette brand was not in packs, instead these cigarettes were packaged in the standard cigarette cartons (11" x 3" x 2") of that era, which were labelled " COUPON Cigarettes ", and contained 100's of cigarettes. The 1910 Coupon cards were placed inside these cartons, or "spot-glued" on the outside of the carton (indicative of the red Cobb's paper loss on its back, as shown below). Jefferson Burdick didn't have the benefit of the "Internet" when he included the 1910 COUPON set in with his classification of the T213-2 and T213-3 sets which were cards issued 1914 - 1915 (his stated timeline). It's my opinion that Burdick would have included the T213-1 in his classification of the T206's, had he known what we now know. Furthermore, we now know that the T213-2 and T213-3 cards were actually issued 1914 - 1919. Click on this thread for the 1910 COUPON checklist.... FYI....1910 COUPON checklist (T213-1) 1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League (48) subjects http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Sheet12xxx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eSheet12xx.jpg The Six Super Prints are seldom seen with the 1910 COUPON advertisement. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...poncobb50x.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edCobb75xb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...uponChance.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onChanceBx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...everschase.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...schase25xb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sedkcap38x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...apChase50b.jpg TED Z . |
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onsterBook.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rahFawcett.jpg This pamphlet size book by Bill Heitman started it all for many of us BB card collectors in the early 1980's. T206 cards were "hot" at the famous Willow Grove Show in Pennsylvania in 1981. It is where and when I became "addicted" to collecting these gems. A T206 Vg-Ex common sold for only $2. And, a green or red Cobb sold for only $15 - $20, each. Furthermore, if you were lucky to find a dealer at the Show selling a DRUM....you could get it for a mere $100. Incidentally, Dennis Eckes was the publisher of Jim Beckett's BB Card Price Guide (1st edition, 1979). Dennis published Bill Heitman's 32-page book "T206 The Monster" in 1980. Dennis was fascinated with Farrah Fawcett. So what guy wasn't when she appeared on the scene in the late 1970's. Dennis included 6 poses of Farrah in Bill's book. TED Z . |
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg Jim Blumenthal started the "ball rolling" regarding the Ty Cobb/TY COBB card when he posted this thread in T2006...... Senator Russel's tobacco card collection...... Jim never waivered in his belief that this Ty Cobb card should have been classified as a T206. Seven years ago this month, Jon Canfield posted this Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb thread that sparked some spirited discussion......including information revealing that the Ty Cobb Cut Plug Smoking Tobacco was marketed in the Spring of 1910...... What We Have Learned About Ty Cobbs With a Ty Cobb Back Check-it-out :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpg TED Z . |
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign460x209.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DGsgc60x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont350x13.jpg This project has been a work in progress on Net54 since 2005. Additional inputs (or corrections) to these checklists are greatly appreciated. In Jan 2011, for ease of access, I consolidated into a single thread the T206 front/back surveys which were previously conducted on Net54. Furthermore, included is the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (T215-1) checklists, as these sets fall under the "T206 rubric" in that they are White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned Tobacco cards printed and issued by American Lithographic within the 1909 - 1911 timeline. And included is the Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back (issued Spring/Summer 1910), since it also conforms to the above stated T206 rubric. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...y18tt206bk.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cobbtycobb.jpg T206 confirmed front/back surveys with respect to T-brand. AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 & 460 BROAD LEAF 350 & 460 BROAD LEAF 460 CAROLINA BRIGHTS CYCLE 350 & 460 DRUM EL PRINCIPE de GALES Brown HINDU Red HINDU LENOX OLD MILL PIEDMONT POLAR BEAR SOVEREIGN SWEET CAPORAL TOLSTOI UZIT 1910 COUPON (T213-1) 1910-1912 RED CROSS (T215-1) Ty Cobb / "TY COBB" Tobacco TED Z . |
Thanks to Ted and all the others who contribute to these general knowledge threads. They are a very valuable resource, especially for new collectors.
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Senator Richard Russell's unique T206 collection
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ardP350x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...06MAGIEx13.jpg Pictured here are the 6 major T206 cards missing in Sen. Russell's near complete set Imagine pulling a Joe Doyle Nat'l card from a Piedmont pack when you were a teenager. Or, your Dad's visit to Atlanta in 1910 acquiring a Ty Cobb/TY COBB card for you ? ? One of the most unique T206 collections in the hobby is on display at the University of Georgia (Athens). Former Georgia Senator Richard Russell's collection of approx. 1000 tobacco cards were donated to Georgia U. in 1983 (along with Russell's historical papers). Russell was an avid BB fan as a youngster. At the age of 13 (1910), he started smoking cigarettes (Piedmont was the available brand in his area of Georgia). He pulled 100's of T206 cards from the packs he purchased. Furthermore, Old Mill brand was available in his home town, of which he accumulated 100's of T210 cards. His T206 set has 497 different cards. As depicted in the header illustration above, no Wagner or Plank in his collection. Not unusual, since these two gems were not marketed with Piedmont backs. Also missing in his set (as shown) are Lajoie, Marquard, Chance, and the Magie error. His teenage smoking habit came to an abrupt end in Fall of 1911, when his parents enrolled him into Gordon Military Institute. It is my impression that his BB card collecting also ended at that point (judging from the fewer number of T205 cards in his collection). For more info, you can check out this thread posted in 2008......Senator Russell's collection incl. Joe Doyle error & Ty Cobb back And, here's the link to an excellent website regarding Russell's collection...... http://baseballcards.galib.uga.edu/about/ P.S. In 2008, I became very interested in this story regarding Richard Russell's collection, since I acquired 40 cards (duplicates) from his original collection. A distant relative of his had consigned approx. 200 cards (mostly T206's) to a dealer in Atlanta (who listed the cards on ebay). She was selling many of his duplicates which she had found in a box in a desk drawer from Russell's estate. The T206's were all Piedmont 350 backs. Including 7 of them from the "Elite 11" group. I was thrilled to acquire all 7 of these rare cards. Furthermore, I called the dealer in Atlanta and he was a wealth of information regarding the Russell collection. TED Z . |
Senator Richard Russell's unique T206 collection (continued)
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nerRptx207.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ardP350x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...06MAGIEx13.jpg Pictured here are the 6 major T206 cards missing in Sen. Russell's near complete set WOW ! I am happy to see someone out in the hinterland is interested in this good stuff. I received an email from a Net54 reader who is fascinated with the Russell collection. One of the questions he asked me...... "Which additional cards are missing from Russell's set ?" In the above post regarding this collection, I posted 497 different PIEDMONT cards (the number mentioned in the Russell Collection website). However, I double-checked the cards in this set and my count is 507 different cards. Listed here are the missing 17 cards...... Plank and Wagner (The PIEDMONT 150 cards of these two subjects were printed by American Lithographic, but never issued in cigarette packs). Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. POLAR BEAR cigarettes were not marketed in Georgia (circa 1910-1911). Magie error Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Chance (batting) Davy Jones Kiernan Lajoie (with bat) Manning (pitching) Marquard (portrait) McQuillan (ball in hand) Moriarity Pfeister (seated) Stark Furthermore, Russell's T206 set approaches a master all-PIEDMONT set, since it includes most of the additional PIEDMONT 350 cards of the 150/350 series subjects. If anyone has anymore questions regarding this set....or questions about Mr. Russell....don't be shy about asking them. I will try to answer them. TED Z . |
The Exclusive 12 (460-only series)
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards The Exclusive 12 story Feb 2013, I posted a theory regarding 12 subjects in the 460-only series that were exclusively printed on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series found with red HINDU backs. Furthermore, the availability of the Exclusive 12 with the red HINDU backs considerably out-numbers any of the 350/460 series cards with red HINDU backs Also,, while most of the other subjects in the 460-only series were printed with LENOX backs, the Exclusive 12 are LENOX no-prints. DITTO, regarding the PIEDMONT 460 F#42 cards. This tells us that these 12 subjects were printed in a separate press run from their other "cousins" in the 460-only series. Check-out this thread...... The Exclusive 12 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460x42x25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...460x42x25x.jpg Crandall (cap) Devore Duffy Ford Gandil Geyer Hummel McGraw (glove at hip) Pfeffer Sheckard (glove) Tannehill (Chicago) Wheat Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Litho's 19" wide press, and a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet. .. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...96cards38x.jpg More specific info and T-brand back runs regarding the Exclusive 12 group will follow in the next post. TED Z . |
T206 Exclusive 12 (continued)
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards Exactly 13 - T206 backs were printed on each of the Exclusive 12 subjects in the 460-only series. Illustrated here is the complete run of the McGraw cards. Needless to say, the red HINDU and UZIT are the toughest cards to find in this run. And fortunately, there were no LENOX or PIEDMONT 460 (Factory #42) cards printed in this group. Incidentally, this McGraw (glove) with UZIT is a brand new find. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUsgcX.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ZITxSGC30x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...loveUZITxb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dHINDUsgcB.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...VxPd4xPBxx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SOVxPd4xPB.jpg Factory #42.....................Factory #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LxAB460xOM.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...xAB460xOMb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tory30xx12.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...YCLE460x18.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CLE460x18b.jpg Factory #30 :) Call me "nuts"....or, whatever....but, I'm having fun engaging in a long-term project to complete the back runs of the Exclusive 12 subjects. There are 156 possible permutations, I now have 123 of them. The UZIT cards are virtually impossible to find, so I don't expect to complete this mission :) To date, there are only five Exclusive 12 confirmed UZIT cards...... Crandall Geyer Hummel McGraw Sheckard Stay tuned for more. TED Z . |
Go for it Ted!! Your almost there. I'm only at 41 without trying and no Piedmont or Sweet Caporal's. I'm gonna have to put a little more effort into these. Thank you for all your T206 research.
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T206 Exclusive 12 (continued)
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I really appreciate your words of encouragement......Thank you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...EPDGxOMx13.jpg Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards And here's my Russ Ford back run from the Exclusive 12 group. I just need the EPDG and UZIT to complete this 13-card run....... Factory #30 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cfactory30.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2FordRHx50.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...77/FordRHb.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SCxOMxTolx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vSCxOMxTol.jpg Factory #42 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...2ovptPBx25.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ovptPBx25b.jpg Factory #42 Factory #30 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Cfactory30.jpg TED Z . |
T206 DRUM and AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame (NF) cards....perfect together
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dWillis12x.jpg HOFers in the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 NF // DRUM sub-set Tim Cathey posted a thread in July 2010 which presented that the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame (NF) and the DRUM cards were a "matched set". Tim's exact words were: " If a 350/460 player can be found with an American Beauty 350 No Frame back they should also be found with a Drum back and visa versa. " And, this rule has withstood the test of time as new DRUM cards have been discovered these past 7 years. The one exception to this rule is Mullin (bat), who has not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back. I completely expect that the Mullin / DRUM card will eventually surface. Refer to Tim's thread...... Matching set....American Beauty 350 (No Frame) and Drum Posted in 2015, the following theory regarding the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (NF) series of 37 subjects is based on my long term experience tracking down these AB 350 cards. Especially, the Nichols (with bat) card and the Stahl (glove) card. These 2 cards have proven to be considerably tougher to find with the AB 350NF back (and the DRUM back) than the other 35 guys in this group. My theory suggests this group was printed in a 36-card (12 x 3) format. Nichols was in the initial print runs, while Stahl was not. Nichols retired April 25, 1910. American Litho replaced him on their 36-card format with Jake Stahl. This theory has been proven by empirical means, and by Pop report data ** Nicholls AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 7 cards. Stahl AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 8 cards. The POP report (SGC + PSA) of any of the remaining 35 subjects in this group averages 14 cards each. For further info on this subject refer to thread...... Theory regarding AB 350 NF printing 350-only series example http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erfeldDRUM.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rfeldDRUMb.jpg 350/460 series example AMERICAN BEAUTY 350NF // DRUM (37 subjects) checklist Baker Bender (no trees) Burch (fielding) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Doolan (bat) Downey (bat) Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Konetchy (glove low) Lake (St Louis-no ball) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (with bat) * Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) ..................... initial press runs Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) Stahl (glove) ..................... replaced Nichols in subsequent press runs Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (New York) Wagner (bat on right shoulder) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) * NOTE Mullin (with bat) has yet to be confirmed with DRUM. I feel certain this card will eventually be discovered. ** Note While I realize POP report data cannot be considered as absolute, I think it's fair to say that the POP data is representative of the relative availability of certain cards with respect to other cards within that group. TED Z . |
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Ted the combined Pops for Nichols and Stahl are: Nichols 13 (PSA-9 & SGC -4) Stahl 14 (PSA-7 & SGC-7) Not trying to shoot your idea down. I just recently wrote an article about this subset and looked at the Pops for all 37 cards, so I remembered that neither of these cards were in the single digits. |
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Hi Luke I just reviewed my records of 2 years ago and the Pop numbers I had posted in my thread did not include the PSA data (although I stated that in that thread).....my bad. So, the average Pop number for the 35 subjects in the AB 350NF group increases to 19 when PSA + SGC are totaled. Therefore, when we consider your Pop numbers for Nicholls and Stahl, I say they do support my contention. So. what say you about this ? Nichols 13 (PSA-9 & SGC -4) See note below Stahl 14 (PSA-7 & SGC-7) Note PSA has 2 distinct AB 350NF listings for Nichols. The listing you didn't cite has only 3 graded. Please explain why you chose the 9 data ? And, what is the difference ? Thanks, TED Z . |
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Hey Ted,
PSA used the generic "American Beauty" for all ABs regardless of series when they first started noting the backs on the flip. Recently, they got more specific and now they will note "American Beauty 350 no frame" on the flip. The generic "American Beauty" heading below shows how many total Nichols American Beautys have been graded (9) and the more specific heading below that shows how many have been graded more recently and given the more specific "American Beauty 350 no frame" flip. If you look at the individual entries in the "AB 350 no frame" listing, you'll see that those 3 cards are also counted as part of the 9 total cards graded under the generic heading. Since we know that all Nichols ABs are the AB 350nf, we know that all 9 have the same back. It's the same for Sovereign and Cycle. The Pop reports are not of much value for finding how many Sov150 have been graded if the same pose exists with Sov350. The generic heading will have say 30 listings, and the specific Sov150 and Sov350 listings might only have 2 or 3 each. Here is my copy. You can see that it is listed in both the generic and the specific headings. |
Hi Luke
Thanks for clarifying the two PSA listings on the same Nichols card. TED Z . |
Experiences collecting T206 sets, tell us your story
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...es/EPDGx13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bbBat12xzz.jpg My 1st adventure into rare F/B combos I will begin with my 1st set of T206 cards. I started collecting T206's in 1981, when I acquired the Hal Chase card (displayed here) at the Willow Grove Show in Pennsylvania. I've always been an avid set collector (completed sets of 1887 A & G, 1888 N162, T205, T207, Goudey's, Dia Stars, PlayBall's, Leaf's, Bowman's and 1952 Topps-1987 Topps. So, this T206 set was not high priority for me. I completed this 521-card set circa 1996. I was smart about buying the Cobb's (and other major stars) in the early 1980's. The Cobb's were selling for only $20 back then for VgEx to Ex condition. Also, I acquired a MAGIE (Vg) for only $600 (circa 1987). Furthermore, note the Lundgren / EPDG at the top of this page. I thank Barry Sloate for starting me searching for rare front/back combos with this one in the early 1980's. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aseblue50x.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...seblue50xb.jpg Anyone want to guess what I paid for this card in 1981 ? OK guys, that's my initial T206 story......would love to hear your experiences in the quest to (near) complete "The Monster" ? TED Z . |
I'm guessing you paid $6.That include a premium for the rare Old Mill back. :D
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I was paying $25.00 for 50 different in 1977 so I will guess $1.00 Ted
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Experiences collecting T206 sets, tell us your story
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OK, Sean and Mike I paid $8 for the Chase. Back then, unless it was a T206 DRUM back, not much consideration was given to "rare" backs by most dealers. TED Z . |
My 2nd T206 set story......
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yFoster11x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg Gee, I thought some of you would chime in here and share your experience(s) of putting together your T206 sets. Oh well....I sold my first T206 set in 1997 to a close friend. Then in 2004, a long-time friend of mine from Florida called me to say they were driving up to Pennsylvania to visit relatives. And, he was bringing his T206 collection with him. He asked me if I was interested in it ? Of course, I said yes ! We worked out a nice cash/trade deal (his T206's for my Goudey's and Diamond Stars and a stack of Ben Franklin's). Afterward, we celebrated by treating them to an exquisite dinner at the near-by Washington Crossing Inn. This T206 collection comprised of approx. 500 cards, including the St Louis variations of Demmitt & O'Hara, and 29 different T206 backs (no BL 460 or DRUM). Within a month, I acquired the needed Stars and Commons to make it a 520-card set. Stay tuned, my 3rd set is an interesting adventure. Meanwhile, I do look forward to hearing of your set experiences. TED Z . |
I got somewhat of a late start on my T206 collection. I didn't get serious about the cards and the set until 2010. Before that, I spent time collecting post-war cards, coins, stamps, and comic books from 1982 to 2009. I had a small number of T206's before really being interested in them. All low grade commons. I don't really count them as the start. My start and what I still call my first T206 set purchase in 2010 was a Hooks Wiltse Pitching. I remember scanning the pages of ebay looking for something special to officially start my set. Viewing the scans of the fronts & backs and looking for hidden gems. Then I found it. Wiltse Pitching PSA 2 with a blurry scan of the Piedmont 350-460 back. Even with the blurry scan, I could tell the factory line was longer (factory 42) than all the other Piedmont backs. So I hit the Buy It Now for $44.95 and have been hooked ever since. My first 5 purchases over the first month consisted of four Piedmont 42's and a Bob Groom Tolstoi Back. In my second month on my ninth purchase, I bought a Bob Groom Polar Bear. Nine cards in and i'm playing with the idea of a Front/Back combo set. I'm currently at 1249 different Front/Back combo's and that number has no Piedmont's except for Factory 42's and no Sweet Caporals. Within the 1249 cards, I'm ten cards away from a 520 set. The only complete back sub-set within the 1249 is the Old Mill SL set. I'm 5 away from a Sovereign 460 set, 3 being super prints and 2 others. I'm 40 away from a Polar Bear set and have the Demmitt St Louis. One sub-set I have that I don't count in my 1249 different cards is the Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 "No Print" Scraps, 27 different cards including Cobb Bat Off. When these were listed on ebay, only 27 different cards showed up even though I believe it is a 28 card set. I believe this is the most complete set intact. I also know David Hall has a decent amount of the set too but don't know which ones he's missing. All I can say is its been a fun 7 years since starting this set and I owe Net54 and the experts for much of it. Thank you.
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OK, I'll post mine. Used to collect cards when I was younger in the late 80's. My last name is Mullen. At that time I bought a T206 Mullen portrait for about $20 and a Tinker, Evers, Chance for about $25 each (the same missing red Tinker in my avatar). Fast forward to 2007 when I happened to go thru some old things and I found these 4 cards. I was just getting started with playing poker and I told myself that it would be a fun project to try and put the set together. Fast forward to today and I'm at 506. My set consists of some rare backs (Lenox), 2 signed (both Larry Doyle), a scrap (Lucky Wright), a blank back, a card with a ton of extra color that bled all over the card, and a Harry Davis Phila. Amep (instead of Phila. Amer.). My set (and my overall collection) has solely been built with poker and sports betting winnings. Although I'm up a good amount overall, it hasn't been all smooth sailing (as I've had to sell 2 green Cobb's, a signed Larry Doyle, a Lenox, and a couple others hahaha).
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5 Attachment(s)
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Since we last talked about the Davis "AMEP" I've seen several new ones. Previously all of them were PD150's but recently I've seen a couple of SC150/649's. Attachment 272101 These are all PD150's Attachment 272102 Attachment 272103 Attachment 272104 Attachment 272105 |
Brendan,
Since we last talked about the Davis "AMEP" I've seen several new ones. Previously all of them were PD150's but recently I've seen a couple of SC150/649's. Wow. I think this is a pretty neat card that hasn't really got any respect yet. It's truly no different than the 'nodgrass or the Dopner, and there may be less examples. |
Hi Ron and Brendan
Some very interesting stories, thanks for sharing them with us. TED Z . |
My 3rd T206 story......PIEDMONT only set
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v......................... PIEDMONT 150 ..........................v....................... .... PIEDMONT 350.........................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont150x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yFoster11x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Jan 2006....The novelty of completing a 2nd set was short-lived. Indeed, The Monster had me "hooked". Going thru set #2, I noticed that 44% of the cards were Piedmont's. This fact inspired me to embark on a new adventure....PIEDMONT-only set. I figured that it should be somewhat easy, since American Litho printed over 50% of the T206's they produced with the Piedmont advertisements. In the 1st decade of the 20th Century, Piedmont was the "Flagship" brand of the American Tobacco Company. I broke up this set and started converting Sweet Caporal, Sovereign, Polar Bear, etc. cards to Piedmont cards. The first smart move in this process was getting together with Dave Czuba (who I had helped complete his 520-card set). We had a great trading session, trading his Piedmont T206's for whatever other T206 brands in my set. When the "smoke" cleared, my new set's Piedmont population increased to 67%. My first milestone was reached in May 2006 upon completing the run of the...... PIEDMONT 150 series Example sheet from my album http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0sheet1x50.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sheet1x50b.jpg It was more or less "smooth sailing" from that point on to acquiring the remaining Piedmont Stars and Commons to achieve the goal of a 518-card set. The only dif- ficult cards I encountered were certain Southern Leaguers with Piedmont 350 backs. Three of them are shown at the top of this page (Breitenstein, Shaughnessy and Foster). In fact, most of the Southern Leaguers (which were originally printed with brown HINDU backs) were tough to find with Piedmont 350 backs. Nov 2006....initial Mission Accomplished...... 518-card PIEDMONT-only set. Eventually, I acquired a MAGIE to update this set to 519 cards. June 2007....I found a card which I refer to as a "poor man's" substitute for the Joe Doyle Nat'L. Check out this thread regarding.... "Poor man's" Joe Doyle error Finally, my PIEDMONT set was complete with 520 cards. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...edoylenatl.bmphttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350xSOV350.jpg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's Mark - - - -^ (remnant of "N" in Nat'L) Stay tuned for my 4th set, which was quite a challenge. Meanwhile, I look forward to hearing of your T206 set experiences. TED Z . |
Ted, those cards look great in the pages. Since i'm more of a PSA Registry kinda collector, I do at some point plan on building a raw good condition set for a binder. I probably will build with Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Sovereign's and Old Mill. I'll probably keep it at 520.
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Hi Ron This is a very impressive story, and thanks for sharing it with us. It's interesting that you noted that your T206 collection does not have any Piedmont Factory #25 cards; and, I just posted my story regarding my Piedmont (Factory #25) set. I'm curious....regarding your Sweet Cap 350-460 Factory 30 Scraps (27 cards)....are these all the same subjects (in post #8 here) which I identified as the Group B subjects ? TED Z . |
"poor man's" substitute for a Joe Doyle Nat'L. Check out this thread regarding the.... "Poor man's" Joe Doyle error
Ted, I have one of these. Pretty pronounced. I bought it solely based on your thread. Do these command a premium? |
Hi Brendan
I haven't tracked these Joe Doyle (with the printer's mark) cards in recent times, so I cannot really give you a good answer to your question. When we first (circa 2007) brought attention to this printer's mark, I recall that cards advertised with it were selling for a premium. Perhaps, some one on this forum can chime in and give you a current response to your question. Thanks, TED Z . |
Thanks Ted, I would appreciate it. I always enjoy your knowledge and the hard work you put into your T206 stories, and theories, etc. Good job.
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My story isn't overly interesting. I started collecting the monster in June of 2013 while on vacation in Destin, Florida. I bought a Tim Jordan batting PSA 3 from PWCC. Paid $26. I basically bought anything I felt was a good price for the condition and then started buying lots to help knock off the needed list. Condition varied.
Last card I bought to get to 520 was a Cobb red portrait with an Old Mill back. It's a PSA 2mk with a stamp on the back. Beautiful card for the grade. Since then I've been upgrading my set when I find good deals. Also, back in 2014, I won about 15 EPDGs that were individually listed auctions from JustCollect. Either they or their consignors had purchased a large EPDG lot from REA and was breaking it up. I sat on those until the fall of 2015 and decided to try to get to 100 EPDGs. Then it became 200 EPDGs. Not sure how far I will go but I currently am at 217 unique ones. I need to update my collage, 3 more need to be added.....apologies on the size of the picture if it skews the screen. I've only added about 5 this year. Been tough finding ones I need. Condition varies from trimmed sides and top to highest graded examples.....Lindaman SGC 70, Fiene throwing PSA 6, and my favorite Frank Smith PSA 6. Don't have any of the biggest HOFers, and probably won't end up buying those, but am happy I've gotten this far. Gonna have to sell them off at some point. http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/a...t206/total.jpg |
Halfway there
I picked up four T206s this week, all with HOF subjects and my first EPDG back. These four cards put me at 260 - squarely in the middle of what I hope to achieve will be a 520 card set.
I started collecting the T206s last year, when I picked up a Walter Johnson (Hands at Chest) to complete my 3,000 strikeout club collection. Owning that very old piece of cardboard caused a sea change in what I wanted to focus on. I went on a tear of buying, centered around buying about 200 PSA 3 cards, mostly commons, off of a guy on eBay. This was where the bulk of my acquisitions came from. By all VCP accounts, this was a good deal and gave me an instant collection. In a lot of ways I regret how I've approached the Monster so far. I wish I had spent the money from the lot on Ty Cobbs, and other expensive cards instead. I don't own any of the Cobbs and the prices on the portraits as we all know have gone insane recently. I am now afraid I am priced out of getting nice low grade ones, especially the green. I also regret not looking at a few of the cards I bought on eBay more closely. In my newness and eagerness to acquire, I did not put a careful eye on cards that look to be trimmed in their slabs. I am somewhat certain that a couple of my moderately pricy HOF cards may have had a little haircut along the way. So almost one year later I am much farther along than I expected to be at this point thanks to that lot. But I am recalibrating my approach - slowing down and going for the HOF and SL cards first, banking on the hope that most of the VG commons will stay relatively stable in price. This has been such a joy to collect so far - connecting with the game's past, and America's past, really. I have loved following the the threads on here and am constantly referring back to the work that guys like Scot Reader and Ted Z have done. And I am really loving Luke's blog. It's an amazing quilt of research and detective work, and my hats off to all of you. I am a small time, JV player in the Monster game but the thrills are immeasurable whenever I acquire a new little piece of 108 year-old cardboard. Thanks to Net 54 for the inspiration and the knowledge. |
Hi Ted, Yes, the 28 cards in Group B. Lajoie With Bat never showed up but all the others came up with between 2 and 8 cards each.
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Incredible EPDG collection. I'm only at 97 different with Carl Lundgren Chicago SGC 60 as the highlight of my EPDG set. Still searching for a Dahlen Boston EPDG to complete my Elite 11. Keep up the great progress.
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Hi Jeff
Great story and an awesome display of your EPDG cards. Thanks for sharing them with us. TED Z . |
4th set......SOVEREIGN only story
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x14.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg I will borrow the last lines from the 1974 movie "The Sting"......when Paul Newman asks Robert Redford (after they pulled off their elaborate "Sting" on Robert Shaw).......... "Was that as good as it gets ?" Redford replies..... "It's not enough" .....then smiles, and says ....."but it's damn close". That scene reflects my feelings regarding my completion of the T206 PIEDMONT set. So, I was motivated to put together the SOVEREIGN set. This adventure was significant, as it resulted in providing us a greater understanding of American Lithographic's printing of the T206 cards. Why did I choose the SOVEREIGN cards ? I always favored the GREEN colored T206 backs (also I've collected AMERICAN BEAUTY sub-sets). So, I figured a SOVEREIGN set would be relatively easy to complete, since Lundgren, Magie, Plank, Wagner, Joe Doyle Nat'l, the 48 subjects in the Southern League series, and Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis) were NOT printed with SOVEREIGN backs. Well, I was very mistaken. This was quite a challenge in itself. Specifically because I had to determine which T206 cards were not printed with SOVEREIGN backs (No-Prints). However, I am very happy to say that my list of No-Prints have withstood the test of time. It took me approx. 11 months to complete this set of 402 different subjects. Refer to this thread...... Mission Accomplished....SOVEREIGN only set Besides the 55 subjects mentioned above, the following T206 subjects are SOVEREIGN no-prints...... Abstein Adkins Arrellanes Barbeau Barger Becker Bliss Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Charles Clark Clymer Collins (Minn.) Cross Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Demmitt (New York American) Dessau Dorner Downey (fielding) Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Engle Evans Fletcher Freeman Ganzel Graham (St Louis AL) Gray Groom Hayden Hoffman (St Louis AL) Hunter Jones (portrait Detroit) Kleinow (Boston) La Porte Lattimore Lord Lundgren (Kansas City) Maddox Maloney Marshall Mattern McAleese McBride McElveen McLean Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Nattress Phillippe Puttman Rhodes Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schreck Shannon Sharpe Frank Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (bat) Starr Willett This SOVEREIGN set has proven to be a very timely and significant project in that it revealed to us the following important insights into American Lithographic's printing of the various series in their T206 production. Refer to Posts #2 & 4 here for the details. TED Z . |
Incredible Sovereign story. I've known of your Sovereign set from past posts over the years but never knew it only took you 11 months and that's with trying to figure out what exactly existed. One word, impressive. I'm currently at 75% complete and it's looking like Cobb 460 will be my last one on the list too.
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Thanks, Ron I acquired 5 of the 6 super-prints with the rare SOVEREIGN 460 back pretty early in the game. It took me 2 more years to get the red Cobb with the SOVEREIGN 460 back. Wish you good luck in finding one. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obbSGCx50b.jpg TED Z . |
KingFisk
Hi Carl
Thanks for posting your T206 story. I always advise collectors to acquire large lots of T206's when starting their sets. So, you were very smart to pick up the large lot of 200 cards. So, don't have any regrets. These current "crazy" prices on Cobb's (and, other major T206 stars), in my opinion will not continue. Prices will eventually fall back to normal. And, thanks for the kind words. TED Z . |
5th set....SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 story
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
. .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap11xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lCYoung12x.jpg ........... Two Pennsylvania guys ........ In 2006, when I broke up my 2nd set to start up the PIEDMONT set, I also began setting aside the SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 cards from the 2nd set. These SWEET CAP cards were a low priority then in my collection. Anyhow, I chose the SWEET CAP, Factory #30 cards because I was certain 469 different subjects would complete this set. At that point I had approx. 150 different SWEET CAP/30 cards. This 469 number was easily determined by this equation...... 524 - [Joe Doyle Nat'L, Kleinow (Boston), Lundgren (Cubs), Magie, Smith (Chi & Bos), Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis vars.), Southern Leaguers (48)] = 469 Furthermore, lengthy research figuring out those tricky No-Prints (as I had to deal with in the SOVEREIGN set) was NOT necessary with this SWEET CAP/30 set. By Oct 2008, I had 467 different SWEET CAP/30 cards (only missing Plank and Wagner). Check-out thread.... MISSION (99.5%) ACCOMPLISHED....all-Sweet Cap T206 set I have no illusions of ever getting the Wagner card. But, I had hopes of eventually acquiring the Plank card. Eddie Plank is one of my all-time favorite pitchers in baseball. My patience paid off last year, when an opportunity arose to acquire a T206 collection (81 cards), which included a SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30 Plank. I worked an interesting deal with my friend on this collection. Now, as far as I am concerned, this SWEET CAP set is "complete" with 468 cards. For more info check-out this thread.... SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set....includes Plank Hey guys How's about some show-n-tell regarding your T206 collections.....we've had some very interesting stories so far.....so, tell us all about your T206 experiences. TED Z . |
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When I started collecting T206's I never had intentions of completing the
set and I still don't. As a matter of fact I recently sold over 100 from my collection. I still have well over 500 T206's but nowhere near a complete set. I do have a fascination with print oddities/flaws though. When Steve B started the PD150 plate scratch thread and explained how someday they might be able to establish some sheet or partial sheet layouts I was hooked. I currently have 243 different PD150 plate scratches, 307 total with the duplicates. Attachment 273025 Attachment 273026 I also like to collect front print oddities like this Willett. Attachment 273027 Tenney with a broken Y in the NY on his shirt. Attachment 273031 Back oddities like the Fact 30's on the bottom. Attachment 273028 or a reoccurring flaws like the one found on the back of certain Brain, Ganzel and Dygert. Attachment 273029 Attachment 273030 |
Pat R. You do have a different approach to collecting T206's than most, and it's quite interesting. Thanks for posting, TED Z . |
AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure....74 card sub-set
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Hey guys, anyone here interested in smoking a 107 year old American Beauty cigarette :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...WagnWilh12.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg .................. Some of the really tough to find AB 460 cards in this sub-set ................... Since 2005, my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 project has been a work in progress to complete this 74 subject run....... AMERICAN BEAUTY's....T205's and/or T206's Prior posts here tell of my 3 "completed" T206 sets since 2005. But to date, I have 70 of the 74 subjects** needed to complete this AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set. This run is tougher than most T206 experts rate it. After 12 years, I still need Camnitz (arms above head)....L Doyle (portrait)....McGraw (portrait-cap), and Tinker (bat off shoulder) The Exclusive 12 guys are the easiest AB 460 cards to find. But, certain cards are extremely rare. Besides the 6 examples shown above and these 3 here....there are Lajoie (bat), Lake (ball), McQuillan (bat), Murray (portrait), Payne, etc...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ffAB460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ningsSGC60.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ChiBost50x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sHand50xbx.jpg AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 check-list........74 subjects 350/460 Series.....................28 subjects Berger Bradley (bat) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (two hands) Jordan (bat) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Steinfeldt (bat) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Doc White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) 460-only Series.....................46 subjects Abbaticcio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (pitching) Bergen (catching) Bescher (hands in air) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (arms at side) Camnitz (arms above head) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Doyle (portrait) Duffy Ford Frill Gandil Geyer Herzog (Boston) Howell (hand on waist) Hummell Lake (with ball) Latham Marquard (follow thru) McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove at hip) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (bat) Overall (blue sky) Payne Pfeffer Schaefer (Washington) Schulte (back view) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Seymour (portrait) Sheckard (glove) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tannehill (Chicago) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wheat Wiltse (portrait-cap) Note ** Other sources claim there are 75 subjects in the AB 460 sub-set. However, my research indicates that 74 subjects were printed with the AB 460 backs. The subject of contention is Ames (hands over head). I am confident in my research. So, I will reward anyone in this forum $200, if they can show me this AMES card with a legitimate AB 460 back. TED Z . |
Those are some nice AB460 numbers Ted. This back is probably the least back in my collection along with everything after that like Hindu, CB's, etc. I did have 11 but now down to 10. I traded a friend an ungraded (poor) Murray Portrait for an Al Shaw Piedmont 350 PSA 2. I only had $100 invested so I did pretty good. My AB350 set is coming along and I will most likely complete that before the with frames and the 460's.
Ted, have you ever thought of going after an Old Mill set? I think that would be right up there compared to a Hindu or CB back set. Big set and lots of low pop's. I just add one here and there and try not to focus on it because of the real difficulty. I'm a 141 plus all SL'ers. Out of that, between 30-40 print group one's. |
AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure....74 card sub-set (continued)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Hey guys, anyone here interested in smoking a 107 year old American Beauty cigarette :) http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...WagnWilh12.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...igpackt206.jpg .................. Some of the really tough to find AB 460 cards in this sub-set ................... A T206 collector, who has 60% of the cards in his AB 460 run, asked me which of the 74 cards are the toughest ? I'll start with this Cobb. While there are as many as 10 known with the AB 460 back, this Cobb is very tough to find simply because of the "supply vs demand" factor. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ffAB460x50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sHand50xbx.jpg List of the scarcest AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 subjects. Only 1 (or 2) examples of each are known. 350/460 Series Cobb (bat off shoulder) ...........less than 10 examples Jennings (one hand) Lajoie (bat) McQuillan (bat) Overall (yellow sky) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Steinfeldt (bat) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) Wilhelm (bat) Wiltse (pitching) 460-only Series Abbaticchio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Camnitz (arms above head) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Doyle (portrait) Howell (hand on waist) Lake (with ball) McGraw (portrait-cap) Murray (portrait) Oldring (batting) Payne Schaefer (Washington) Schlei (portrait) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wiltse (portrait-cap) I would appreciate any additional inputs to this list. TED Z . |
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Hi Ron The OLD MILL's don't excite me....except for the Exclusive 12 cards with OLD MILL backs. As you know, these OLD MILL's are very difficult to find. But, I enjoy this challenge. Recently, I started looking for them, and I have only 4 of them...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...randall25x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dDevore50x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...andall25xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dDevore25b.jpg Not too pretty; however, I'll take them any way that I can find them :) TED Z . |
T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....scary stuff....read all about it
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...6DRUMx38bx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ortraitx13.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Circa 2000, a bunch of T206's were in circulation that were FAKES. These T206's were so professionally altered that they not only fooled collectors; but, also fooled the Grading Company's (PSA, SGC, etc.)....who graded these fakes and gave some of them high numbers. Check-out this thread....Rebacked T206's on Ebay Most in the hobby called these altered T206's...."re-backed". I choose to call them "re-fronted" DRUM's, red HINDU's, LENOX's, etc. A professional paper restorer told me how it was easy to interchange the front / back combo of a T206. By first removing the front of a common T206 image from a card whose back was a rare one (DRUM, HINDU, LENOX, UZIT, etc., etc.). Then, very precisely appliqueing the desired front onto the card with the rare back. He said there are adhering mediums that are undetectable in this process. Fortunately, there were some of us collectors that instantly discerned that these T206's were fakes because their front / back combos were impossible. Examples...... Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (PSA & SGC graded) Red Cobb with DRUM back (PSA graded) Green Cobb with a red HINDU back Green Cobb with a CYCLE 350 back Johnson (pitching) with BROAD LEAF 350 back We were lucky......whoever did a beautiful job of altering these T206's was totally ignorant of the T206 Series structure and its associated backs. There were many of these fakes in circulation, if you recall others than the 5 which I have listed here, please give us your inputs. Thanks, TED Z . |
T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....scary stuff (continued)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ereign12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...duAB460x13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...6DRUMx38bx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ortraitx13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Circa 2000, a bunch of T206's were in circulation that were being sold on Ebay (and at Shows) that were FAKES. These T206's were very professionally altered, and these cards fooled many collectors (and even the Grading Co's.). Except some of us, who instantly recognized these cards had front / back combos that were impossible. Here is an updated list with some more examples which were reported to me via emails. So far, we have identified these 7 fake T206 cards...... Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (PSA and SGC graded) Matty (portrait) with a SOVEREIGN 460 back (PSA graded) Red Cobb with DRUM back (PSA graded) Green Cobb with a red HINDU back Green Cobb with a CYCLE 350 back Johnson (pitching) with BROAD LEAF 350 back Johnson (portrait) with BROAD LEAF 350 back http://i.imgur.com/JiH0X.jpg Courtesy Chris Brown There were many more of these fakes in circulation. If you recall others than the 7 which I have listed here, please provide us your inputs. Thanks, TED Z . |
T206 OT Doolan/Doolin Cards
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Hi Ted - I can not find an answer to this T206 question:
Two Doolan Cards, one Doolin Card - they are same person. Any idea why there was not a correction? |
Jerry,
They did fix the error, but not until the 350 series. The Doolin portrait was first printed in 1909. When they printed his other two cards, starting in 1910, the correction was made. Scott Gross wrote a fun article for my website about all the misspelled names in the t206 set (shameless plug :D) http://www.thatt206life.com/2017/04/...ur-name-wrong/ |
H Jerry
Mickey Doolin's portrait card (issued in the 150 Series) is correct. His 350 Series card (fielding pose) and his 350/460 Series card (batting pose) are mis-spelled. They had it right the 1st time....anyone's guess why his subsequent cards had it wrong ? TED Z . |
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