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  #1  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:11 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In light of the most recent "phony" T206 Red Cobb with a DRUM back, I thought it would be informative to post the following
list of DRUM cards. In addition, I have observed a commonality between four of the tougher T-brand backs that I feel is worth
discussing here.


1st.....Shown here are the four T206 backs produced for the 350 Series that have identical stylized FRAME and lettering. It
is probably safe to conclude that the same artist at American Lithographic Co. (ALC) designed these four backs. The design
is exactly the same....just the name of the T-brand differs.
These tougher T206 cards were very likely inserted in their respective cigarette packs at the end of the 350 Series run. Scot
Reader's "Inside T206" book identifies the release of American Beauty 350 cards in the Summer of 1910 (quite later than the
availability of the Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, and Sovereign 350 cards). The Cycle, Broad Leaf, and Drum cards, I would theor-
ize, were available simultaneously with the American Beauty's, or in the Fall of 1910.
Therefore, due to this late date, the T206's in particular with Broad Leaf, and Drum backs were very Short-Printed.....as ALC
was more involved in producing their last (460) Series of cards to be released at the end of 1910 and early 1911.

However, there appears to be an emerging pattern, that all 4 of these backs were printed on certain Subjects. For example:
Dineen is found with AB 350, BL 350, Cy 350, and DRUM. If this observation is valid, then it can prove to be very valuable in
predicting the availaility of a DRUM (or a Broad Leaf) back. Incidently, this "rule" is only applicable to Subjects (approx. 200
cards) in the 350-only Series and the six Super-Prints.






This list reflects 28 years of recorded DRUM backs......there are a total of 80 Subjects.
Of these, 30 are from the 350/460 Series.

Arellanes
Atz
Baker
Barbeau
Barry (Milwaukee)
Becker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Burch (fldg)
Burke
Carr
Chance (yellow)
Chase (dark cap)
Collins (Minnesota)
Crawford (bat)
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dineen
Donovan (throw)
Doolan (bat)
Dorner
Downs
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fldg)
Engle
Evers (Chi-yellow sky)
Fiene (portrait)
Graham (Boston)
Griffith (bat)
Hallman
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Huggins (hds/mouth)
Jackson
Jennings (dance)
Johnson (pitch)
Jordan (bat)
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Konetchy (glove lo)
Krause (portrait)
Lake (no ball-St Louis)
Lattimore
Maddox
Magee (bat)
Marshall
Mathewson (dark cap)
McAleese
McBride
McQuillan (bat)
Milan
Moeller
Moran
Moriarty
Murray (bat)
Myers (fldg)
Overall (yel sky)
Pfeister (throw)
Phillippe
Pickering
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Randall
Rudolph
Seymour (throw)
Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Stephens
Street (fldg)
Sweeney (bat)
Sweeney (fldg)
Taylor
Thielman
Titus
Wagner (bat/right)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Zimmerman


Net54er's....feel free to add to this list any T206 DRUM cards that do not appear on it.


TED Z

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  #2  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:18 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted - an authentic red Cobb w/ Drum sold last year in a SGC AUT slab.

- Jon

Edited to add: it was lot 646 in the November 2007 Hunt Auction... http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&lot_qual=

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  #3  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:43 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Adam

"You will note that an original (authentic) Red Cobb with a DRUM back has yet to be sighted."

Does this mean SGC got it wrong in labeling the one Jon pointed out as authentic?

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Old 06-02-2008, 02:45 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: JimB

I believe Brian Weisner noted knowing of more than one legitimate example of the red Cobb/Drum. Perhaps he will chime in here before long.
JimB

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  #5  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:49 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: dan mckee

Are u ignoring me?

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  #6  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:50 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Guys,
I will post scans of 2 legit Cobb/Drum's when I get back home... I don't think my wife could find them in my massive scan gallery. Be well Brian


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  #7  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:54 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Jim Rivera

Ted,
Here is a list I have on file and you can add Slagle and Strang. Also this list does not include the Hunt find.

114 I think

350 subjects:
Bill Abstein
Frank Arellanes
Jake Atz
Jap Barbeau
Shad Barry ML (Milwaukee)
Emil Batch ML
Beals Becker
Jimmy Burke ML
Charley Carr ML
Doc Casey ML
Josh Clark ML
Jimmy Collins Minneapolis (HOF)
Bunk Congalton ML
Paul Davidson ML
Frank Delehanty ML (Delahanty, Louisville)
Bill Dineen (Dinneen)
Wild Bill Donovan (throwing)
Gus Dorner ML
Jerry Downs ML
Clyde Engle
Jerry Freeman ML
Peaches Graham (Boston)
Bill Hallman ML
Harry Hinchman ML (Toledo)
Dick Hoblitzell
Solly Hofman
Miller Huggins Hands at Mouth (HOF)
Jimmy Jackson ML
Joe Kelley (HOF)
Ed Killian (portrait)
Otto Knabe
Harry Krause (pitching) "White" cap
Harry Krause (portrait)
Rube Kroh
Bill Lattimore ML
Jimmy Lavender ML
Ed Lennox
Paddy Livings tone (Livingston)
Nick Maddox
Billy Maloney ML
Doc Marshall
John McAleese
George McBride
Dan McGann ML
Clyde Milan
Fred Mitchell ML (Toronto)
Pat Moran (Chicago)
George Moriarty
Red Murray (batting)
Billy Nattress ML
Simon Nichols (Nicholls) (batting)
Deacon Phillippe
Ollie Pickering ML
Jack Quinn
Newt Randall ML
Bob Rhoades (Rhoads) (hands at chest)
Charlie Rhodes
Lou Ritter ML
Dick Rudolph ML
Boss Schmidt (portrait)
Jim Scott
Jimmy Slagle ML
Fred Snodgrass (batting)
Tris Speaker (R) (HOF)
Charlie Starr
Sam Strang ML
Gabby Street (portrait)
Bill Sweeney (Boston)
Jake Thielman ML
John Titus
Bob Unglaub
Jack Warhop
Heinie Zimmerman

350/460 subjects:
Home Run Baker (R) (HOF)
Chief Bender No Trees (HOF)
Heinie Berger
Al Burch (fielding)
Frank Chance Yellow Portrait (HOF)
Hal Chase Black Cap
Ty Cobb Red Portrait (HOF)
Ty Cobb Bat off Shoulder (HOF)
Sam Crawford With Bat
Mickey Doolan (batting)
Larry Doyle (N.Y. Natl., with bat)
Kid Elberfeld (Wash., fielding)
Johnny Evers Chicago (yellow sky) (HOF)
Lou Fiene (portrait)
Lou Fiene (throwing)
Clark Griffith Batting (HOF)
Hughie Jennings Two Hands (HOF)
Walter Johnson Glove at Chest (R) (HOF)
Tim Jordan (Brooklyn, batting)
Red Kleinow Boston
Ed Konetchy (glove near ground)
Joe Lake (St Louis. No ball, r.h. visible)
Sherry Magee (with bat)
Rube Manning (pitching)
Christy Mathewson Dark Cap (HOF)
George McQuillan (with bat)
Danny Murphy (batting)
Orval Overall (hand face level)
Barney Pelty (vertical photo)
Jake Pfeister (Pfiester) (throwing)
Ed Reulbach (no glove showing)
Cy Seymour (throwing)
Harry Steinfeldt (with bat)
Jeff Sweeney (New York)
Heinie Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Kaiser Wilhelm (with bat)
Ed Willetts (Willett)
Vic Willis Batting
Hooks Wiltse (pitching)

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Old 06-02-2008, 03:50 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Millerhouse

I can add a Purtell with a Drum back to the list.

Millerhouse

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  #9  
Old 06-02-2008, 03:56 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks JON,
1st time I have seen a Red Cobb/Drum in 28 years that I have confidence in, that it wasn't a re-backed one.

I'll add this card to the list.

TED Z

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  #10  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:45 PM
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Default T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks JIM R

This a is great start....let's keep adding more T206 Subjects with DRUM backs to the list..

Also, Guys and Gals

I would appreciate any of your thoughts on my "American Beauty-Broad Leaf-Cycle-DRUM (ABCD) connection" ?

With the added DRUM's to the tally, this "ABCD connection" is proving to be more than just a "wild" hypothesis.


BRIAN W

I look forward to your inputs.


TED Z

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