Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by raulus

Maybe the post changed since it went up? I'm just seeing a helpful post to encourage us all to check our cards against the database.

The post was edited as Leon suggested but it did show your 54 Mays as having once resided in a PSA 7. Contrary to what snowman wrote, it did clearly show changes in the card by recoloring and the removal of printing flaws.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The post was edited as Leon suggested but it did show your 54 Mays as having once resided in a PSA 7. Contrary to what snowman wrote, it did clearly show changes in the card by recoloring and the removal of printing flaws.

Gotcha.

I didn't have a lot of time last night, but went back through the database, focusing on my high value cards, and looking more carefully at adjacent certs. The 54 Mays was the only one that I flagged as being likely problematic. A couple were within 100 certs of another card that was flagged as altered. This one had certs on both sides that were problematic, including a cert within 3. And the card within 3 certs was also a 54, but for Kaline. So that doesn't bode well.

Certainly interested to learn what alterations were made to the card, and maybe the database and the posts will be updated to include this card in the future. And then I'll have to decide how to approach it once I have more detail.

I guess I can be grateful that my cards will all now be fully vetted by the team at BODA as a generous free service to me. That should help me sleep easier at night, except for anything they flag as being altered, which I'll get to address.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by raulus

Gotcha.

I didn't have a lot of time last night, but went back through the database, focusing on my high value cards, and looking more carefully at adjacent certs. The 54 Mays was the only one that I flagged as being likely problematic. A couple were within 100 certs of another card that was flagged as altered. This one had certs on both sides that were problematic, including a cert within 3. And the card within 3 certs was also a 54, but for Kaline. So that doesn't bode well.

Certainly interested to learn what alterations were made to the card, and maybe the database and the posts will be updated to include this card in the future. And then I'll have to decide how to approach it once I have more detail.

I guess I can be grateful that my cards will all now be fully vetted by the team at BODA as a generous free service to me. That should help me sleep easier at night, except for anything they flag as being altered, which I'll get to address.

Having a card within a hundred certs of another card that was found to be altered could suggest your card is included in a submission by someone who submits altered cards. Some of the suspect submissions consisted of hundreds of cards.

Also not sure how you conclude your cards have been fully vetted by the BO guys. It seemed like the approach they would take is to look at identifiable cards by known card doctors and then look for an example in a higher grade and make a match with the photos. I would guess they are missing far far more than they have discovered.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Also not sure how you conclude your cards have been fully vetted by the BO guys. It seemed like the approach they would take is to look at identifiable cards by known card doctors and then look for an example in a higher grade and make a match with the photos. I would guess they are missing far far more than they have discovered.

I guess I assumed that they have been reading these posts, and have determined that my cards are worthy of closer inspection. Given that they appear to have moved quickly to flag one of them just last night, I arrogantly presumed that they wouldn't hesitate to start working through the rest of them. But maybe the 54 will be the only one they bother to check out.

[Lorewalker]

From what I can tell, there is only 1 guy doing it now and I doubt he is targeting your collection. It appears he updates various threads as he finds photo matches. Really not sure what their process is/was but I know it takes a huge amount of time for just a single card.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

From what I can tell, there is only 1 guy doing it now and I doubt he is targeting your collection. It appears he updates various threads as he finds photo matches. Really not sure what their process is/was but I know it takes a huge amount of time for just a single card.

I guess I'll go back to not sleeping well at night then.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I guess I'll go back to not sleeping well at night then.

It's all about your tolerance at this point, I feel. If you bought 9s and 10s out of certain auction houses, or even 8s of major cards, well there is a good chance some are altered, that's just the odds. Look for any cards that are obviously short, not always a clear indicator but it's something. Look for corners that appear bat eared or otherwise are not 90 degrees. Get a halogen light and see if anything shows up.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Having a card within a hundred certs of another card that was found to be altered could suggest your card is included in a submission by someone who submits altered cards. Some of the suspect submissions consisted of hundreds of cards.

And I guess that makes those couple of other certs possible candidates. Not sure what to do about it though, other than wait and see what they find, assuming they keep working through my collection looking for suspicious pieces for me.

But maybe there are some other steps I should take now as a result of the adjacentness to other cards already in the database?

[Peter_Spaeth]

BODA is only able to trace a fraction of altered cards. Sometimes there is a convenient paper trail of an ebay purchase and they essentially get lucky. Most of the time there is not. I wouldn't take much comfort here at least from the BODA after the fact angle.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by raulus

And I guess that makes those couple of other certs possible candidates. Not sure what to do about it though, other than wait and see what they find, assuming they keep working through my collection looking for suspicious pieces for me.

But maybe there are some other steps I should take now as a result of the adjacentness to other cards already in the database?

I do not know what you have done but altered cards are everywhere in the hobby so while there might be sellers to avoid even that is not good enough. Knowing the card's history helps in that case. Knowing where it was first sold can tell you a bit about the card. This would apply to all cards in your collection unless you decide you only want to focus on cards over a certain value or cost.

Unless you want to collect raw beaters I think you have to accept that unless you have the ability to look at a card while it is in the holder and assess it for doctoring, that you might have bad cards and just leave it at that.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The post was edited as Leon suggested but it did show your 54 Mays as having once resided in a PSA 7. Contrary to what snowman wrote, it did clearly show changes in the card by recoloring and the removal of printing flaws.

No, it most certainly did not

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

No, it most certainly did not

Card altering does not phase you and you hate the BO board. We have heard this from you repeatedly.

The PSA 7 that I saw posted absolutely had print defects, as is typical for the card, on the right side. There was a small and short print line extending into the border mid way up on the right side and a larger print defect on Mays' arms. Sorry if you missed it but you did.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Card altering does not phase you and you hate the BO board. We have heard this from you repeatedly.

The PSA 7 that I saw posted absolutely had print defects, as is typical for the card, on the right side. There was a small and short print line extending into the border mid way up on the right side and a larger print defect on Mays' arms. Sorry if you missed it but you did.

I'll look again. I thought you were referring to the back borders that he highlighted in his post, which were definitely not recolored.

Also, I don't hate the BODA board. I think they've largely provided a great service to the hobby. I just think they've gotten lazy and irresponsible at times with some of the cards they post.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'll look again. I thought you were referring to the back borders that he highlighted in his post, which were definitely not recolored.

I looked at the cards he posted and did not even bother to read what he posted. When you look with an open mind, you see much more. If I knew how to properly post an image here I would post what I think was the scan of the PSA 7. 100% the card is recolored.

You should not have jumped all over this without being more thorough in your examination.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I looked at the cards he posted and did not even bother to read what he posted. When you look with an open mind, you see much more. If I knew how to properly post an image here I would post what I think was the scan of the PSA 7. 100% the card is recolored.

You should not have jumped all over this without being more thorough in your examination.

I was wrong. There does appear to be a couple of small print lines on the front right border that may have been removed (I say "may have been" because you can still see them in the 8.5 scan but they appear to be significantly less noticeable).

What I looked at, and rolled my eyes at, was his up close comparison to the top back border, which he made a gif image of. After that, I just moved on.

Where do you see recoloring though?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I was wrong. There does appear to be a couple of small print lines on the front right border that may have been removed (I say "may have been" because you can still see them in the 8.5 scan but they appear to be significantly less noticeable).

What I looked at, and rolled my eyes at, was his up close comparison to the top back border, which he made a gif image of. After that, I just moved on.

Where do you see recoloring though?

Travis you are better than this and do not need me to point this out. What's going on?

https://postimg.cc/TL6hd3T4

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pretty unlikely IMO a 7 would go to an 8.5 unless something was done to it, particularly if the card is associated with certain people.

[Lorewalker]

Unable to post the scan so hopefully these links work...if I only had a brain...

Here is the card as a 7. https://sales-history.pwccmarketplac...MONTHLY1527430

And now as an 8.5. https://sales-history.pwccmarketplac...MONTHLY1620352

It was later sold on eBay.

[55koufax]

My '55 AA's will always be a target for alterers.

Moral of the story - I should have never sold a single card from the cellos!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

Moral of the story - I should have never sold a single card from the cellos!

Nah, you can't think like that. I mean, if you sold a car to a guy who then mowed down a row of kids at a bus stop, you aren't to blame.