Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[Lorewalker]

He did show the fronts of the cards. Had he not posted those front pics I never could have picked up the obvious recoloring. He was vague as to what had been done.

Also that print line flaw is on many 54 Topps Mays cards (frequently varies in size) however there are some that do not have them (maybe they are recolored too) but I have never seen a 54 Mays with the print line flaw in anything higher than a 7. Assumption is that PSA does not see it as a variation but a flaw that reduces the grade.

Quite a bit of misinformation being tossed around as fact on this thread.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

He did show the fronts of the cards. Had he not posted those front pics I never could have picked up the obvious recoloring. He was vague as to what had been done.

Also that print line flaw is on many 54 Topps Mays cards (frequently varies in size) however there are some that do not have them (maybe they are recolored too) but I have never seen a 54 Mays with the print line flaw in anything higher than a 7. Assumption is that PSA does not see it as a variation but a flaw that reduces the grade.

Quite a bit of misinformation being tossed around as fact on this thread.

I searched DuckDuckGo for "1954 Topps Mays PSA 8" and pulled the first 2 images that result for this search. Result 1 is a PWCC file which Safari doesn't want to download the image, so here's the link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2184996. Result #2 is attached.

Misinformation indeed!

[G1911]

And here's a 9

[Lorewalker]

2 of the examples were graded very early on. 1 of them I have no idea when the cert was used. Those are the first I have seen, not that I have looked for them but if an experienced card doctor recolored it, then it reasons that generally that print flaw results in a downgrade.

And in case we continue this I want to apologize from the bottom of my heart if I upset you in anything I post.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If it was a T206 it would be some highly prized "freak" and there would be 107 threads about it.

[steve B]

It's not really a print flaw, which I consider to be flaws from the press or handling.

It's from a mark on the negative used to make the plate. It would be on about half or 1/3 of the 54 mays produced. A genuine difference in that plate position, which should be treated as a variation even if it's not major enough to catalog or recognize. (and there are plenty that are recognized that are far more trivial)

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by steve B

It's not really a print flaw, which I consider to be flaws from the press or handling.

It's from a mark on the negative used to make the plate. It would be on about half or 1/3 of the 54 mays produced. A genuine difference in that plate position, which should be treated as a variation even if it's not major enough to catalog or recognize. (and there are plenty that are recognized that are far more trivial)

My opinion is that a flaw on the print plate that causes a blemish this bad, and which is not present on the other half (or more) of the cards produced, definitely makes this a print flaw. It's like the giant fisheye on ~half of the Dr. J RCs. The copies without the flaws should be graded higher and should be considered significantly more valuable than those with the flaws.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

2 of the examples were graded very early on. 1 of them I have no idea when the cert was used. Those are the first I have seen, not that I have looked for them but if an experienced card doctor recolored it, then it reasons that generally that print flaw results in a downgrade.

And in case we continue this I want to apologize from the bottom of my heart if I upset you in anything I post.

I found 3 graded over a 7.5 in 20 seconds and saw 6 total qualifying slabs. Makes me strongly suspect this is not "misinformation" but that PSA does not treat this particular variant differently from so many other print differences that it completely ignores. I don't see evidence for the contrary.

I'm still not interested in the personal game you want to play with me. That's all you.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I found 3 graded over a 7.5 in 20 seconds and saw 6 total qualifying slabs. Makes me strongly suspect this is not "misinformation" but that PSA does not treat this particular variant differently from so many other print differences that it completely ignores. I don't see evidence for the contrary.

I'm still not interested in the personal game you want to play with me. That's all you.

I have no knowledge of this variant, but if that is so, why would Gary recolor it, and how else do we explain the jump of 1.5 grades?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no knowledge of this variant, but if that is so, why would Gary recolor it, and how else do we explain the jump of 1.5 grades?

The green is recolored on back or trimmed to make it look nicer. Check the Blowout post. I think it much more likely that the changes to the border damage to reduce them creates the grade gap rather than a well known masking variant that one can extremely easily and with no effort find several high slabbed examples of.

Would love to see any evidence what I said was "misinformation".

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I found 3 graded over a 7.5 in 20 seconds and saw 6 total qualifying slabs. Makes me strongly suspect this is not "misinformation" but that PSA does not treat this particular variant differently from so many other print differences that it completely ignores. I don't see evidence for the contrary.

I'm still not interested in the personal game you want to play with me. That's all you.

You might not see evidence to the contrary as to your theory but that does not at all mean your theory is at all accurate. It merely means you are not able to see another explanation.

PSA is known for being inconsistent. Within the last 5 years I submitted a very high grade Mays which came back a 7. I reviewed it and it came back with a post it note with an arrow pointing to the print anomaly.

That one of the most prolific card doctors in the hobby knew to remove it in an effort to get a 1.5 grade bump suggests that he, who you will have to admit has far more experience submitting than you do, knew leaving it there would not allow him to get a grade bump.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You might not see evidence to the contrary as to your theory but that does not at all mean your theory is at all accurate. It merely means you are not able to see another explanation.

PSA is known for being inconsistent. Within the last 5 years I submitted a very high grade Mays which came back a 7. I reviewed it and it came back with a post it note with an arrow pointing to the print anomaly.

That one of the most prolific card doctors in the hobby knew to remove it in an effort to get a 1.5 grade bump suggests that he, who you will have to admit has far more experience submitting than you do, knew leaving it there would not allow him to get a grade bump.

My experiences align with this take as well. I think in order to find one graded higher than a 7 with the armband, it would either have to have been graded in the early days of PSA or the grader would have had to miss it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You might not see evidence to the contrary as to your theory but that does not at all mean your theory is at all accurate. It merely means you are not able to see another explanation.

PSA is known for being inconsistent. Within the last 5 years I submitted a very high grade Mays which came back a 7. I reviewed it and it came back with a post it note with an arrow pointing to the print anomaly.

That one of the most prolific card doctors in the hobby knew to remove it in an effort to get a 1.5 grade bump suggests that he, who you will have to admit has far more experience submitting than you do, knew leaving it there would not allow him to get a grade bump.

That an action is done is not evidence that action is necessary. Though I am happy to learn PSA is now using a post it note system to explain why cards got certain grades. I didn’t know that. Explaining why they do what they do is good.

We’ve gone from “misinformation” to “a different explanation”. Looking at the slabs, and of numerous other 50’s Topps cards, print variants from which sheet slot the card was in do not seem to disqualify high grades. This seems the more reasonable evidence for me to use, the evidence of what PSA has actually done, rather than to assume that any action done is a necessary action done and skipping the other work performed by Moser’s *finger and moisture*. Misinformation is factually false and inaccurate information usually with intent to deceive, not an opinion from the physical evidence that one just disagrees with or does not like.

I will certainly admit that Moser has infinitely more experience submitting to PSA. As a collector of cardboard instead of a criminal fraudster, I don’t have as much need for their services