Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

Lorewalker · #1 09-18-2023, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

Gotcha.

I didn't have a lot of time last night, but went back through the database, focusing on my high value cards, and looking more carefully at adjacent certs. The 54 Mays was the only one that I flagged as being likely problematic. A couple were within 100 certs of another card that was flagged as altered. This one had certs on both sides that were problematic, including a cert within 3. And the card within 3 certs was also a 54, but for Kaline. So that doesn't bode well.

Certainly interested to learn what alterations were made to the card, and maybe the database and the posts will be updated to include this card in the future. And then I'll have to decide how to approach it once I have more detail.

I guess I can be grateful that my cards will all now be fully vetted by the team at BODA as a generous free service to me. That should help me sleep easier at night, except for anything they flag as being altered, which I'll get to address.

Having a card within a hundred certs of another card that was found to be altered could suggest your card is included in a submission by someone who submits altered cards. Some of the suspect submissions consisted of hundreds of cards.

Also not sure how you conclude your cards have been fully vetted by the BO guys. It seemed like the approach they would take is to look at identifiable cards by known card doctors and then look for an example in a higher grade and make a match with the photos. I would guess they are missing far far more than they have discovered.

raulus · #2 09-18-2023, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Also not sure how you conclude your cards have been fully vetted by the BO guys. It seemed like the approach they would take is to look at identifiable cards by known card doctors and then look for an example in a higher grade and make a match with the photos. I would guess they are missing far far more than they have discovered.

I guess I assumed that they have been reading these posts, and have determined that my cards are worthy of closer inspection. Given that they appear to have moved quickly to flag one of them just last night, I arrogantly presumed that they wouldn't hesitate to start working through the rest of them. But maybe the 54 will be the only one they bother to check out.

Lorewalker · #3 09-18-2023, 11:03 AM

From what I can tell, there is only 1 guy doing it now and I doubt he is targeting your collection. It appears he updates various threads as he finds photo matches. Really not sure what their process is/was but I know it takes a huge amount of time for just a single card.

raulus · #4 09-18-2023, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

From what I can tell, there is only 1 guy doing it now and I doubt he is targeting your collection. It appears he updates various threads as he finds photo matches. Really not sure what their process is/was but I know it takes a huge amount of time for just a single card.

I guess I'll go back to not sleeping well at night then.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 09-18-2023, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I guess I'll go back to not sleeping well at night then.

It's all about your tolerance at this point, I feel. If you bought 9s and 10s out of certain auction houses, or even 8s of major cards, well there is a good chance some are altered, that's just the odds. Look for any cards that are obviously short, not always a clear indicator but it's something. Look for corners that appear bat eared or otherwise are not 90 degrees. Get a halogen light and see if anything shows up.

Exhibitman · #6 09-18-2023, 11:33 AM

As to why we bother with grading, it's simple: money. I don't care about having graded cards in my collection, but if I want to cash out, I hold my nose and get them slabbed. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. Graded cards just bring more money as long as there is a cadre of collectors who believe in it. No amount of hand wringing, or debate will alter that dynamic.

Yoda · #7 09-18-2023, 12:24 PM

Grading has become the price point for the hobby. VCP simply substantiates that fact.

parkplace33 · #8 09-18-2023, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As to why we bother with grading, it's simple: money. I don't care about having graded cards in my collection, but if I want to cash out, I hold my nose and get them slabbed. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. Graded cards just bring more money as long as there is a cadre of collectors who believe in it. No amount of hand wringing, or debate will alter that dynamic.

Totally agree (as I said in the earlier post).

The blue collar class of collectors have long since left the hobby. It is mostly white collar now. Such a change from years ago.

raulus · #9 09-18-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Having a card within a hundred certs of another card that was found to be altered could suggest your card is included in a submission by someone who submits altered cards. Some of the suspect submissions consisted of hundreds of cards.

And I guess that makes those couple of other certs possible candidates. Not sure what to do about it though, other than wait and see what they find, assuming they keep working through my collection looking for suspicious pieces for me.

But maybe there are some other steps I should take now as a result of the adjacentness to other cards already in the database?

Peter_Spaeth · #10 09-18-2023, 11:04 AM

BODA is only able to trace a fraction of altered cards. Sometimes there is a convenient paper trail of an ebay purchase and they essentially get lucky. Most of the time there is not. I wouldn't take much comfort here at least from the BODA after the fact angle.

Lorewalker · #11 09-18-2023, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

And I guess that makes those couple of other certs possible candidates. Not sure what to do about it though, other than wait and see what they find, assuming they keep working through my collection looking for suspicious pieces for me.

But maybe there are some other steps I should take now as a result of the adjacentness to other cards already in the database?

I do not know what you have done but altered cards are everywhere in the hobby so while there might be sellers to avoid even that is not good enough. Knowing the card's history helps in that case. Knowing where it was first sold can tell you a bit about the card. This would apply to all cards in your collection unless you decide you only want to focus on cards over a certain value or cost.

Unless you want to collect raw beaters I think you have to accept that unless you have the ability to look at a card while it is in the holder and assess it for doctoring, that you might have bad cards and just leave it at that.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Signed PSA/DNA Cards: Gibson, Monte Irvin, Pee Wee Reese, Cepeda RC, more!	jh691626	Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T	3	05-11-2023 09:09 PM
FS: 1953 Bowman Larry Doby and 1951 Bowman Monte Irvin RC (Irvin SOLD)	cgjackson222	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	04-15-2023 12:50 PM
wtb 51b monte irvin	Peter_Spaeth	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	02-18-2021 11:30 PM
cert. numbers in proximity to cards outed on Blowout	Peter_Spaeth	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	206	07-25-2019 09:43 PM
F/S: Monte Irvin Fritsch Negro League cards	SmokyBurgess	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	1	02-15-2014 08:25 AM