T205 American Beauty Back Question

[tedzan]

Joshua

Thanks for the confirmation of the 6 back versions of the T205 Cobb. HASSAN Factory #649 cards are common
enough that a Cobb would have surfaced by now....had it been printed.

I put this set together in the early 1990's, and paid close attention to the Cobb's. Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joshua
Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

Except empirically gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards by hundreds/thousands of collectors uniting for the benefit of the whole community.

[tedzan]

DITTO....kiddo


In the process of completing a 211-card set (including Hoblitzell -- No Stats), I interfaced with at least 40 other collectors buying, trading,
and sharing info on T205's.


TED Z

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joshua

Thanks for the confirmation of the 6 back versions of the T205 Cobb. HASSAN Factory #649 cards are common
enough that a Cobb would have surfaced by now....had it been printed.

I put this set together in the early 1990's, and paid close attention to the Cobb's. Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

Ted-I have a question since you have done extensive research on the t205 set. Who, in your opinion, is the toughest Hall of Fame member with a confirmed American Beauty back and how does Rube Marquard stack up as far as scarcity regarding the back?-thank you -Bob

[tedzan]

I don't claim to be an expert on this set. I completed it many years ago. I sold it back in 1997 to one of the guys here on Net54.
In the process, I did keep track of the T205 Ty Cobb's.

Joshua is the Net54 resident T205 expert.


TED Z

Originally Posted by bbeck

Ted-I have a question since you have done extensive research on the t205 set. Who, in your opinion, is the toughest Hall of Fame member with a confirmed American Beauty back and how does Rube Marquard stack up as far as scarcity regarding the back?-thank you -Bob

Matty by far

[Wite3]

I would have to agree with Andrew on the relative rarity of Matty with American Beauty...not because it was printed less but because of the demand.

Tim,
You question is fairly complex. There are more than one grouping of cards printed with and without Hassan 649 backs.

One grouping is the Minor League cards with come with 649 backs but not 30 backs...I would put this as the group that most likely replaced the cards like Cobb.

There is also a grouping that contains some of the variations and single prints (Kleinow, Grant, Wallace no cap, etc.)

Then there are ones that defy explanation like Matty or Olmstead which seems like they should come with the 649 back but I have not confirmed it yet.

I can tell you that as of now my research shows that I have confirmed 77 different cards that come with the Hassan 649 back.

I can also say I have seen 95 different cards that come with the Hassan 30 back.

There are 53 confirmed with both backs.

I feel that this list is still incomplete though.

I hope this helps a bit.

Joshua

[Abravefan11]

Joshua - Thank you for the great information. So based on the numbers you posted am I correct that over 50% of T205's were not printed with a Hassan 649 back that is a fairly common back? So much like the T206 Sweet Caporal 150 No.649 that is a common back only a portion of available subjects were printed for distribution out of this factory and that based on the numbers it is more likely a player was excluded than included.

[Wite3]

Tim,
Less than 50% were printed with Hassan 649 (77 out of 208 fronts)...I think that the print runs were just done with different front sheets and just changing the advertising on back, making corrections, etc. (The backs are clearly moveable typesets).

I do not think they excluded players depending on distribution. It seems to me that I recall that the distribution of T205s were not dependent on teams being close to the factories but I am not a hundred percent sure. Maybe, I need to look into this more.

Also, keep in mind the T205 set was cut short (no idea as to why, only speculation). There is plenty of evidence that another series was to be printed that might have included some of the players that most notably were not in the first print run (Wagner, Lajoie, Plank, Mack, etc.).

Joshua

[Abravefan11]

Joshua - Thanks for sharing your information. I believe the T205's like the T206's have several factors to consider when determining why certain players can be found with specific backs and careful study of the printing groups and distribution timelines provide the most plausible answers.

[nebboy]

Also, keep in mind the T205 set was cut short (no idea as to why, only speculation). There is plenty of evidence that another series was to be printed that might have included some of the players that most notably were not in the first print run (Wagner, Lajoie, Plank, Mack, etc.).

Joshua[/quote]

I would like to hear more on any evidence that another run for the T205 was as considered.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Also, keep in mind the T205 set was cut short (no idea as to why, only speculation). There is plenty of evidence that another series was to be printed that might have included some of the players that most notably were not in the first print run (Wagner, Lajoie, Plank, Mack, etc.).

Joshua

Your speculation here has a high probability of being valid. American Litho. was cranking out their Gold-bordered T80's (Military series)
in the Spring of 1911. And, their T201 cards (circa..Summer of 1911). Also, I think there is at least another set of cards that escape my
mind at this moment.
Anyhow, a lot printing of premiums was going on in 1911....which may account for the T205's getting short shrift.


TED Z