T205 American Beauty Back Question

tedzan · #1 06-03-2011, 09:14 AM

Your ".....I am still wanting to see a T205 Hindu Cobb...that would be a great combination... "

...... "wanting", or "waiting" ? ?

In either event....it aint going to happen. I'm sure you know that Cobb was printed with 6 (or 7) T205 backs.
But, just like the T206 series Cobb(s), they do not exist with a HINDU back.

This phenomena falls back to my "Factory #649 theory" regarding no T205 or T206 Cobb's inserted in packs from this Rochester, NY plant.

Joshua

Have you ever seen a HASSAN (Factory #649) Cobb ?

I would bet that they are all Factory #30 HASSAN Cobb's.

TED Z

Abravefan11 · #2 06-03-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

This phenomena falls back to my "Factory #649 theory" regarding no T205 or T206 Cobb's inserted in packs from this Rochester, NY plant.

Joshua

Have you ever seen a HASSAN (Factory #649) Cobb ?

I would bet that they are all Factory #30 HASSAN Cobb's.

TED Z

This conspiracy theory continues to be perpetuated which shows in the case of T206's a basic misunderstanding of how the cards were printed and distributed.

I can't speak directly to the T205 Hassan backs as I admittedly don't know a lot about them but I do know that T202's were printed with Cobb on both the center and end panels with Hassan backs and distributed out of Factory 649.

In fact Cobb was literally the poster boy for Hassan cigarettes.

wonkaticket · #3 06-03-2011, 08:48 PM

Tim, great point.

tedzan · #4 06-03-2011, 09:21 PM

Why are you comparing "apples with oranges" ?

I have NEVER stated that the two subsequent issues (T201's and T202's) to the T206's and T205's did not have Cobb's out
of Factory 649.
Indeed, I have a complete T201 set with both MECCA (Factory 30 & 649) Cobb's. Furthermore, I have a T202 Cobb with a
HASSAN (Factory 649) back. So, this is nothing new.

Can you please stick the the subject which pertains only to the T206's and T205's, as I have theorized......

Show us any of the four Cobb's in the T206 set with a HINDU (Factory 649) back ?

Or, show us a T205 Cobb with a HINDU or a HASSAN (Factory 649) back ? ?

I don't think you can....Tim !

It is you, who apparently has a basic misunderstanding of how certain cards were printed and distributed.

TED Z

Abravefan11 · #5 06-03-2011, 09:26 PM

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/169.html

tedzan · #6 06-03-2011, 09:37 PM

Come on now....even you have stated your doubts regarding the authenticity of that card in a thread a few months ago.

Are you recanting you previous belief ?

The history of that Cobb card starts approx. 10 years ago when there was a rash of re-fronted T206 star cards with red HINDU
backs. Most of which were so professionally done that they were graded by both PSA and SGC.

TED Z

Abravefan11 · #7 06-03-2011, 09:44 PM

I have stated that I can understand why some people would question the particular card in the REA auction but the Red Cobb/Red Hindu is definitely a possible front back combination in the T206 set. I base that on factual data and sound research, not wild speculation. If you prefer to weave a tall tale of Cobb being slighted by Factory 649 then by all means don't let me get in the way of a good story, I just want those that are interested to know that it's just that...a story.

Abravefan11 · #8 06-03-2011, 09:49 PM

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=130340

Post # 7

"I realize the Cobb Red Hindu that was sold not to long ago had a great deal of doubt surrounding it and I won't argue one way or the other for it's being good. I will just say I believe a Cobb (Red Portrait) Red Hindu is a possible front back combination."

tedzan · #9 06-03-2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

I have stated that I can understand why some people would question the particular card in the REA auction but the Red Cobb/Red Hindu is definitely a possible front back combination in the T206 set. I base that on factual data and sound research, not wild speculation. If you prefer to weave a tall tale of Cobb being slighted by Factory 649 then by all means don't let me get in the way of a good story, I just want those that are interested to know that it's just that...a story.

"Wild speculation" ! ?

Was this my wild speculation when I hypothesized that T206 BROAD LEAF 460 cards are "matched twins" with Red HINDU cards last year in this thread
that I posted ........ ?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+460+red+hindu

And, that T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 and UZIT cards are also "matched twins".

Furthermore, I hypothesized that these two groups of T206's are mutually exclusive with respect to each other.

Again, I ask you....was all this the result of my "wild speculation" ? ?

So, given these so-called "story's" of mine that have been proven to be true......since a red Cobb exists with a BROAD LEAF 460, it should have been printed
with a Red HINDU back.

But, in all these years of collecting T206's....NO one has seen a legitimate Red Cobb with a Red HINDU back. It is apparently a rule-breaker.

TED Z

cfc1909 · #10 06-05-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

This phenomena falls back to my "Factory #649 theory" regarding no T205 or T206 Cobb's inserted in packs from this Rochester, NY plant.

TED Z

amazing-how did you figure this out?

tedzan · #11 06-05-2011, 04:23 PM

Andrew

Since I am being accused of "de-railing" this thread....I will try to get it back on track.
My records indicate that the T205 Ty Cobb card is available with these 6 backs.........

AMERICAN BEAUTY Factory 42

HASSAN Factory 30

HONEST Long Cut

PIEDMONT Factory 25

PIEDMONT Factory 42

POLAR BEAR

Can you (or anyone here) account for any other backs that the Cobb is found with ?

TED Z

Wite3 · #12 06-06-2011, 04:17 PM

Ted,
Those are the six backs that Cobb comes with and have been confirmed by my research (meaning, I own one, held one or have seen very clear scans of one).

I will tell you that a T205 Cobb will most likely never occur with a Hassan 649 back. It is in a grouping of cards that is not found with that particular back. Hassan 649 backs are also common, not like a Hindu or Broadleaf card from either T206 or T205. One certainly would have been seen by now. Is it impossible...not at all since new finds are popping up all the time but I stand by my theory and research.

Incidentally...the cards that fall into Cobb's grouping tend to be several of the cards that were replaced or switched in later print runs. T205 print runs are far more complicated than T206 print runs with certain cards being switched out, fixed, eliminated and added.

Joshua

asoriano · #13 06-06-2011, 04:18 PM

If we are counting blank backs, Cobb also exists with that particular reverse.

Abravefan11 · #14 06-06-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wite3

I will tell you that a T205 Cobb will most likely never occur with a Hassan 649 back. It is in a grouping of cards that is not found with that particular back.

Joshua

Joshua - Approximately how many cards are in the group that was not printed with Hassan 649 backs? And how many were printed with this back? Thanks.

tedzan · #15 06-06-2011, 06:04 PM

Joshua

Thanks for the confirmation of the 6 back versions of the T205 Cobb. HASSAN Factory #649 cards are common
enough that a Cobb would have surfaced by now....had it been printed.

I put this set together in the early 1990's, and paid close attention to the Cobb's. Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

Leon · #16 06-06-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joshua
Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

Except empirically gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards by hundreds/thousands of collectors uniting for the benefit of the whole community.

bbeck · #17 06-06-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joshua

Thanks for the confirmation of the 6 back versions of the T205 Cobb. HASSAN Factory #649 cards are common
enough that a Cobb would have surfaced by now....had it been printed.

I put this set together in the early 1990's, and paid close attention to the Cobb's. Nothing beats the empirically
gained knowledge gleaned from years of collecting these cards.

Best regards,

TED Z

Ted-I have a question since you have done extensive research on the t205 set. Who, in your opinion, is the toughest Hall of Fame member with a confirmed American Beauty back and how does Rube Marquard stack up as far as scarcity regarding the back?-thank you -Bob

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