First-ever SGC 10 Wilt Chamberlain Rookie Graded

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I hate to break it to you, but that ship sailed long ago.

I don't agree that those are the same card though. But I do agree that card doctors have been faking fuzzy cuts for a while.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't agree that those are the same card though. But I do agree that card doctors have been faking fuzzy cuts for a while.

They are the same card...https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7827. Apparently this Moser guy has been doing rough cuts for decades.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

They are the same card...https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=7827. Apparently this Moser guy has been doing rough cuts for decades.

I love the BODA, but I don't think they're infallible. I see pretty definitive differences on these cards that shouldn't be doctorable (to a standard that would get past PSA or SGC.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If the sheets were cut by blades at OPC, as is now apparently the accepted version of events according to what has been presented, this certainly still leaves me with some questions.

Why would they only cut one sheet at a time? That just seems ridiculously slow and inefficient.

If you are cutting very thin cardboard one sheet at a time, how poor quality are those blades that they would wear out so frequently as to cause such a high percentage of rough cuts? Why would they have not made a switch to a higher quality blade to ultimately save them money?

With all the OPC rough cuts, does it not illustrate that these blades either wore out almost instantly and they just kept using them, or that they wore out almost instantly and had to be replaced constantly? It has to be one or the other, does it not? No company is going to keep making this mistake for 30+ years when there has to be a more cost efficient solution which would ultimately yield a higher quality product.

That fellow who was answering the questions didn't even work at OPC if I managed to read it correctly. He worked at another local company (which is still in business--I used to know one of the daughters).

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I love the BODA, but I don't think they're infallible. I see pretty definitive differences on these cards that shouldn't be doctorable (to a standard that would get past PSA or SGC.

What would those be? And unless you are a doctor I would not put it past those who are to be able to do some pretty amazing things.

The back clearly has unique identifying "spots" that make it impossible to argue they are not the same card.

Your assumption is that when PSA graded this they were actually trying to catch alterations in PWCC's submissions. That does not seem to be the case with any of the thousands of cards BODA outed that had been submitted by PWCC.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Your assumption is that when PSA graded this they were actually trying to catch alterations in PWCC's submissions. That does not seem to be the case with any of the thousands of cards BODA outed that had been submitted by PWCC.

There is no evidence whatsoever that PSA was knowingly grading altered cards by PWCC. They are simply incompetent/incapable of detecting this stuff. No conspiracy theories needed here. Also, their records and communications with PWCC were subpoenaed by the FBI. If something more nefarious were happening between them, I think we would have heard about it.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There is no evidence whatsoever that PSA was knowingly grading altered cards by PWCC. They are simply incompetent/incapable of detecting this stuff. No conspiracy theories needed here. Also, their records and communications with PWCC were subpoenaed by the FBI. If something more nefarious were happening between them, I think we would have heard about it.

Neither of us works for the FBI so I don't think it is so safe to assume there is no evidence whatsoever, to assume we know the scope of the investigation or that we would necessarily have heard anything about the investigation, at this point, because it is still an open matter even if it is not being worked on.

So I will rephrase my statement since it was interpreted as being stated as fact. It is my opinion, not a conspiracy theory, based solely on many of the examples that BODA provided that, if it was not that they were knowingly grading bad cards that they were not trying their best to detect issues with the bad cards submitted by certain submitters. It would require someone submitting altered cards to know for sure that they are incompetent or incapable of detecting altered cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't believe PSA is THAT bad. I have to believe there was, and maybe still is, some element of looking the other way for certain submitters.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I love the BODA, but I don't think they're infallible. I see pretty definitive differences on these cards that shouldn't be doctorable (to a standard that would get past PSA or SGC.

It's definitely the same card. Look at the back. There are numerous identifiable fingerprint markings.

Also, what's interesting most to me is that Moser (or whoever it was) made rough cuts on the shorter edges too, not just the longer edges. Which should have been a dead giveaway to anyone looking at it during grading. The rough cuts were only on the long edges for 56 Topps, as those were the edges that ran through the dull rotary blades. The short edges were cut by the guillotine-style ream cutters and did not produce rough cuts. It's strange to me because I would assume someone as detail oriented as Moser would have known this. Was he just trolling perhaps? Or was he actually unaware of that fact? I don't know.