First-ever SGC 10 Wilt Chamberlain Rookie Graded

Lorewalker · #1 08-30-2024, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I get that, I just don't understand the decision that one factory flaw is cool and the other is the kiss of death.

It might feel arbitrary but I think there are collectors out there who prefer rough cuts (fuzzy cuts, as you refer to them) but not sure anyone prefers an off center card, though many will accept off centered cards.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 08-30-2024, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It might feel arbitrary but I think there are collectors out there who prefer rough cuts (fuzzy cuts, as you refer to them) but not sure anyone prefers an off center card, though many will accept off centered cards.

Oh it doesn't FEEL arbitrary...

I get it and don't get it all at the same time. To me if a factory flaw can affect the grade then all factory flaws should affect the grade and so if the highest graded OPC Gretzky rookie is only a NM 7 so be it.

Lorewalker · #3 08-30-2024, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Oh it doesn't FEEL arbitrary...

I get it and don't get it all at the same time. To me if a factory flaw can affect the grade then all factory flaws should affect the grade and so if the highest graded OPC Gretzky rookie is only a NM 7 so be it.

Personally speaking I just do not see a factory rough cut as a flaw...to me it is closer to a variation but some might not agree. Print lines, poor registration, washed out color, print spots, centering or surface wear (snow) are things which detract from a card's appearance. I just do not view the rough cut as a distraction and unless the rough cut impacts the sharpness of the corners I do not feel it should adversely impact the grade.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #4 08-30-2024, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Personally speaking I just do not see a factory rough cut as a flaw...to me it is closer to a variation but some might not agree. Print lines, poor registration, washed out color, print spots, centering or surface wear (snow) are things which detract from a card's appearance. I just do not view the rough cut as a distraction and unless the rough cut impacts the sharpness of the corners I do not feel it should adversely impact the grade.

To me it's simpler. Is the card SUPPOSED to be fuzzy cut? Of course not. Just like it's not supposed to be off center or have fish eyes or paper flaws etc. Anything that is not an intentional part of the production process should get equal treatment.

SyrNy1960 · #5 08-30-2024, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

to me it's simpler. Is the card supposed to be fuzzy cut? Of course not. Just like it's not supposed to be off center or have fish eyes or paper flaws etc. Anything that is not an intentional part of the production process should get equal treatment.

+1 👍🏻💯

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #6 08-30-2024, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Is the card SUPPOSED to be fuzzy cut? Of course not. Just like it's not supposed to be off center or have fish eyes or paper flaws etc. Anything that is not an intentional part of the production process should get equal treatment.

I agree, but I don't.

I'm from the hometown of OPC. Growing up, we kids all abhorred the rough cuts. We thought they were kinda unprofessional as compared to the slick cards coming from south of the border. Nobody wanted OPC.

On the other hand, all those way-too-sharp OPC Gretzkys were mostly cut from uncut sheets years after the fact. You simply did not pull cards that nice from packs of OPC. For many years, you'd see people placing local classifieds to buy uncut OPC sheets. Guess what they were doing with them?

Fast forward to today, and I don't mind a rough cut. Nothing super-jagged, mind you, but that's personal preference. As some have speculated with wide bordered T206s, I have a feeling that a future premium will be placed on certain rough cuts.

Thus far, I'm not aware of anybody trying to create a rough cut artifically. Just wait and see. We'll get there someday.

I'm sure this is common knowledge to most of you, but thought I'd tell the old story about the reason for the rough cut OPC cards in case somebody was unaware. They cut the cards with a hot, electric wire device. In OPCs haste, many sheets were cut while still too damp; this is the cause of the OPC rough cuts.

Getting back to why I am on the fence about agreeing to Scott's opinion: if OPC, for instance, had intended every card to come off the production line perfectly, then yes, I would agree. But they clearly didn't care, ergo the rough cuts. Therefore, to me, a rough cut might not have been their ideal vision, but they let this slide for decades, so rough cuts were, indirectly, intentional. They released them that way; didn't bother scrapping that stupid hot wire until 1990 or thereabouts.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 08-30-2024, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I agree, but I don't.

I'm from the hometown of OPC. Growing up, we kids all abhorred the rough cuts. We thought they were kinda unprofessional as compared to the slick cards coming from south of the border. Nobody wanted OPC.

On the other hand, all those way-too-sharp OPC Gretzkys were mostly cut from uncut sheets years after the fact. You simply did not pull cards that nice from packs of OPC. For many years, you'd see people placing local classifieds to buy uncut OPC sheets. Guess what they were doing with them?

Fast forward to today, and I don't mind a rough cut. Nothing super-jagged, mind you, but that's personal preference. As some have speculated with wide bordered T206s, I have a feeling that a future premium will be placed on certain rough cuts.

Thus far, I'm not aware of anybody trying to create a rough cut artifically. Just wait and see. We'll get there someday.

I'm sure this is common knowledge to most of you, but thought I'd tell the old story about the reason for the rough cut OPC cards in case somebody was unaware. They cut the cards with a hot, electric wire device. In OPCs haste, many sheets were cut while still too damp; this is the cause of the OPC rough cuts.

Getting back to why I am on the fence about agreeing to Scott's opinion: if OPC, for instance, had intended every card to come off the production line perfectly, then yes, I would agree. But they clearly didn't care, ergo the rough cuts. Therefore, to me, a rough cut might not have been their ideal vision, but they let this slide for decades, so rough cuts were, indirectly, intentional. They released them that way; didn't bother scrapping that stupid hot wire until 1990 or thereabouts.

The hot wire story has been debunked several times.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-cut-is-solved

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #8 08-30-2024, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The hot wire story has been debunked several times.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-cut-is-solved

Thanks for the link. I'll be interested in reading. Local OPC employees have mentioned the wire as part of the process, so I have never had reason to question it.

Snowman · #9 09-01-2024, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Thus far, I'm not aware of anybody trying to create a rough cut artifically. Just wait and see. We'll get there someday.

I hate to break it to you, but that ship sailed long ago.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #10 09-01-2024, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I hate to break it to you, but that ship sailed long ago.

I don't agree that those are the same card though. But I do agree that card doctors have been faking fuzzy cuts for a while.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Looking for a Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain rookie	sportscardpete	Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T	0	08-09-2023 07:57 AM
FS 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain Rookie PSA 6	awise1187	Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T	2	04-29-2023 01:54 PM
looking for a centered Wilt Chamberlain/Bill Russell rookie	sportscardpete	Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T	0	02-04-2023 07:47 PM
FS 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain Rookie PSA 4 SOLD	awise1187	Everything Else, Football, Non-Sports etc.. B/S/T	0	09-26-2022 06:50 PM
Autographed 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain #8 Rookie	Celtics18	Basketball / Cricket / Tennis Cards Forum	2	05-29-2021 12:40 PM