Ichiro

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

He actually was one hit away from Rose's MLB total. Rose had another four or five hundred hits in the minors, which are technically "pro" hits. Ichiro is amazing, undeniably classier than Rose and a sure first ballot hall of famer, but he's not the MLB hit leader nor the pro hit leader.

Ichiro is still a couple hundred hits behind Pete Rose if we want to start counting minor league hits as "professional." Ichiro played two years in the minors as well.

In baseball terms, the "pros" is unanimously considered to exclude minor league play. Ichiro has the most hits of any baseball players at the highest level.

Plus, Pete Rose used a corked bat and was a known cheater, all his stats deserve an asterisk.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Ichiro is still a couple hundred hits behind Pete Rose if we want to start counting minor league hits as "professional." Ichiro played two years in the minors as well.

In baseball terms, the "pros" is unanimously considered to exclude minor league play. Ichiro has the most hits of any baseball players at the highest level.

Plus, Pete Rose used a corked bat and was a known cheater, all his stats deserve an asterisk.

I don't know where you get your baseball terms from, but there's no need for quotation marks around professional. Minor league players get paid to play the game, hence they are the very definition of professional. In my experience, only the casual fans don't understand that difference.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I don't know where you get your baseball terms from, but there's no need for quotation marks around professional. Minor league players get paid to play the game, hence they are the very definition of professional. In my experience, only the casual fans don't understand that difference.

Would you consider barnstorming to be professional? They're getting paid. I have never heard of a fan refer to single A balls as the pros.

I know the literal definition of professional baseball, but I have never seen someone try to include minor league ball in career stat records.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I have never heard of a fan refer to single A balls as the pros.

Those are exactly the casual fans I referred to. Single-A, rookie ball for that matter, is pro. Why do you think there's such a fuss about eligibility with the recent draft picks. Ian Anderson, the #3 overall pick, cannot sign his professional contract until after June 23rd, when he graduates high school. Because it's a PROFESSIONAL contract.

Every single person I talk baseball with considers the minor leagues professional. Every player I've ever talked to considers it professional. The link from SABR, whose opinion on baseball is pretty relevant, considers it professional. I really don't even see where the debate is, this isn't a matter of opinion, it's a simple fact. Minor leaguers' rights are controlled by the parent club they are affiliated with, and they are paid from that same organization. It doesn't get any more professional than that.

Professional League and Major League are not the same thing and do not have the same meaning, although many confuse the two as being the same thing.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Those are exactly the casual fans I referred to. Single-A, rookie ball for that matter, is pro. Why do you think there's such a fuss about eligibility with the recent draft picks. Ian Anderson, the #3 overall pick, cannot sign his professional contract until after June 23rd, when he graduates high school. Because it's a PROFESSIONAL contract.

Every single person I talk baseball with considers the minor leagues professional. Every player I've ever talked to considers it professional. The link from SABR, whose opinion on baseball is pretty relevant, considers it professional. I really don't even see where the debate is, this isn't a matter of opinion, it's a simple fact. Minor leaguers' rights are controlled by the parent club they are affiliated with, and they are paid from that same organization. It doesn't get any more professional than that.

Professional League and Major League are not the same thing and do not have the same meaning, although many confuse the two as being the same thing.

This is beginning to deviate from my original point. There is no logical reason to consider minor league statistics in assessing the historical records of professional baseball players. We don't consider spring training (also professional baseball) or barnstorming (also professional baseball) or off season foreign exhibition games (also professional baseball). We track stats at baseballs highest levels which is the MLB in America, Negro Leagues when relevant and the NPB in Japan.

[dgo71]

To that point, Negro League statistics are not calculated into career MLB totals. Neither are foreign leagues. Jackie Robinson's stats in the Negro Leagues aren't on his HOF plaque and nobody considers Hideo Nomo to be a 200-game winner. This conversation only came about because Ichiro is in a unique situation and as great a player as he is, the media wants to make it an even bigger story.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

To that point, Negro League statistics are not calculated into career MLB totals. Neither are foreign leagues. Jackie Robinson's stats in the Negro Leagues aren't on his HOF plaque and nobody considers Hideo Nomo to be a 200-game winner. This conversation only came about because Ichiro is in a unique situation and as great a player as he is, the media wants to make it an even bigger story.

Josh Gibson is credited with 800 home runs on his hall of fame plaque.