Ichiro

[Tripredacus]

Its funny, I was looking it up last night and he was 1 hit away from Rose's pro total.

[HRBAKER]

[Econteachert205]

I'm a big Ichiro fan and even though it is an asterisk record, I still think it is deserving of a lot of celebration. Amazing accomplishment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

3000 hits starting at age 27 is incredible.

[ullmandds]

pete rose may still be the undisputed all time major league hit leader...and will be remembered for this long after he's gone...BUT...he'll also be remembered as a big douche!

on the other hand...Ichiro has never been anything less than an A1 class act...with more total hits than the douche!

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

Its funny, I was looking it up last night and he was 1 hit away from Rose's pro total.

He actually was one hit away from Rose's MLB total. Rose had another four or five hundred hits in the minors, which are technically "pro" hits. Ichiro is amazing, undeniably classier than Rose and a sure first ballot hall of famer, but he's not the MLB hit leader nor the pro hit leader.

[packs]

I know that hits in Japan are not hits in MLB but Rose should at least acknowledge that those hits in Japan came in their professional league. They didn't come in the minors or anything like that. Rose said something like, "What's next? Are they going to count his high school hits too?". That is such a stupid thing to say and really does show how lame he is.

[chaddurbin]

c'mon this is how pete rose makes his living now, being the hit king nets him 2mil+ a year...of course he wants to protect his title.

ichiro's resurgence this year is kinda surprising tho, he's a sure-fire hof'er...hope he doesn't get pop for ped or something like that down the line.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I know that hits in Japan are not hits in MLB but Rose should at least acknowledge that those hits in Japan came in their professional league.

Sure he should - right after Barry Bonds and/or Hank Aaron acknowledge Sadaharu Oh's 868 home runs.

[packs]

I think you're missing the point. Rose was trying to diminish Ichiro's professional hits by equating Japanese professional baseball to high school baseball. No one said they count the same as an MLB hit, I said he should acknowledge it's the highest level of play in Japan, which has nothing to do with high school baseball. Also, Oh never played in the MLB and I highly doubt anyone is critical of his accomplishments.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Rose was trying to diminish Ichiro's professional hits by equating Japanese professional baseball to high school baseball.

Rose wasn't trying to do anything. A reporter asked him for his comment and he gave his opinion.

Edited to add: In other words, it wasn't Rose that brought it up.

Edited to further add: It shouldn't even be a topic for discussion. If we're going to even possibly consider Ichiro's hits from Japan, then let's consider all Japanese players statistics for all categories.

[packs]

No one is suggesting his total hits from both leagues mean he is the all time MLB hit leader.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

He actually was one hit away from Rose's MLB total. Rose had another four or five hundred hits in the minors, which are technically "pro" hits. Ichiro is amazing, undeniably classier than Rose and a sure first ballot hall of famer, but he's not the MLB hit leader nor the pro hit leader.

Ichiro is still a couple hundred hits behind Pete Rose if we want to start counting minor league hits as "professional." Ichiro played two years in the minors as well.

In baseball terms, the "pros" is unanimously considered to exclude minor league play. Ichiro has the most hits of any baseball players at the highest level.

Plus, Pete Rose used a corked bat and was a known cheater, all his stats deserve an asterisk.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Ichiro is still a couple hundred hits behind Pete Rose if we want to start counting minor league hits as "professional." Ichiro played two years in the minors as well.

In baseball terms, the "pros" is unanimously considered to exclude minor league play. Ichiro has the most hits of any baseball players at the highest level.

Plus, Pete Rose used a corked bat and was a known cheater, all his stats deserve an asterisk.

I don't know where you get your baseball terms from, but there's no need for quotation marks around professional. Minor league players get paid to play the game, hence they are the very definition of professional. In my experience, only the casual fans don't understand that difference.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I don't know where you get your baseball terms from, but there's no need for quotation marks around professional. Minor league players get paid to play the game, hence they are the very definition of professional. In my experience, only the casual fans don't understand that difference.

Would you consider barnstorming to be professional? They're getting paid. I have never heard of a fan refer to single A balls as the pros.

I know the literal definition of professional baseball, but I have never seen someone try to include minor league ball in career stat records.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I have never heard of a fan refer to single A balls as the pros.

Those are exactly the casual fans I referred to. Single-A, rookie ball for that matter, is pro. Why do you think there's such a fuss about eligibility with the recent draft picks. Ian Anderson, the #3 overall pick, cannot sign his professional contract until after June 23rd, when he graduates high school. Because it's a PROFESSIONAL contract.

Every single person I talk baseball with considers the minor leagues professional. Every player I've ever talked to considers it professional. The link from SABR, whose opinion on baseball is pretty relevant, considers it professional. I really don't even see where the debate is, this isn't a matter of opinion, it's a simple fact. Minor leaguers' rights are controlled by the parent club they are affiliated with, and they are paid from that same organization. It doesn't get any more professional than that.

Professional League and Major League are not the same thing and do not have the same meaning, although many confuse the two as being the same thing.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Those are exactly the casual fans I referred to. Single-A, rookie ball for that matter, is pro. Why do you think there's such a fuss about eligibility with the recent draft picks. Ian Anderson, the #3 overall pick, cannot sign his professional contract until after June 23rd, when he graduates high school. Because it's a PROFESSIONAL contract.

Every single person I talk baseball with considers the minor leagues professional. Every player I've ever talked to considers it professional. The link from SABR, whose opinion on baseball is pretty relevant, considers it professional. I really don't even see where the debate is, this isn't a matter of opinion, it's a simple fact. Minor leaguers' rights are controlled by the parent club they are affiliated with, and they are paid from that same organization. It doesn't get any more professional than that.

Professional League and Major League are not the same thing and do not have the same meaning, although many confuse the two as being the same thing.

This is beginning to deviate from my original point. There is no logical reason to consider minor league statistics in assessing the historical records of professional baseball players. We don't consider spring training (also professional baseball) or barnstorming (also professional baseball) or off season foreign exhibition games (also professional baseball). We track stats at baseballs highest levels which is the MLB in America, Negro Leagues when relevant and the NPB in Japan.

[Tripredacus]

Originally Posted by dgo71

He actually was one hit away from Rose's MLB total. Rose had another four or five hundred hits in the minors, which are technically "pro" hits. Ichiro is amazing, undeniably classier than Rose and a sure first ballot hall of famer, but he's not the MLB hit leader nor the pro hit leader.

You're right. I used the wrong qualifier.