PWCC Juggernaught

[pokerplyr80]

Yes that one certainly looks suspicious. Brent has come to this site and claimed that bidding patterns such as this are often legitimate and that for some reason there are bidders out there who as a practice place small incremental bids until they become the high bidder. Without actually investigating further we can't know for sure. If this same bidder retracted the bid that became the high bid that would be fairly definitive.

And yes, this bidder certainly won't have to worry about not receiving the end of auction notification.

[MetsBaseball1973]

I bid that way sometimes. Whenever I bid from my phone I just keep hitting the bid button sometimes over and over.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Yes that one certainly looks suspicious. Brent has come to this site and claimed that bidding patterns such as this are often legitimate and that for some reason there are bidders out there who as a practice place small incremental bids until they become the high bidder. Without actually investigating further we can't know for sure. If this same bidder retracted the bid that became the high bid that would be fairly definitive.

And yes, this bidder certainly won't have to worry about not receiving the end of auction notification.

That bidder may just really want to that MJ rookie card. He also bid on that card from PWCC last month before getting crushed:

Link

[botn]

Originally Posted by glchen

That bidder may just really want to that MJ rookie card. He also bid on that card from PWCC last month before getting crushed:

Link

He with the most bids does not win. It does not benefit a buyer to bid early, especially often, on an eBay auction let alone one from Brent who lets all of his auctions go to the end. I would question the bidders tactics even if legit.

This type of bidding pattern can be found in way too many of Brent's listings. Again, not saying they are all done to shill but his coming on here and addressing one or two auctions does not mean in all instances this pattern is legit.

[gnaz01]

FWIW, I am happy with my first pickup from Brent and team last night............

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

He with the most bids does not win. It does not benefit a buyer to bid early, especially often, on an eBay auction let alone one from Brent who lets all of his auctions go to the end. I would question the bidders tactics even if legit.

This type of bidding pattern can be found in way too many of Brent's listings. Again, not saying they are all done to shill but his coming on here and addressing one or two auctions does not mean in all instances this pattern is legit.

I agree that this strategy doesn't make much sense, and is not one that I utilize, aside from the one early bid I mentioned I like to place.

I also agree that some bids such as these may very well be placed by consignors shilling their own auctions. My main point is that there is no way for us to know for sure without more information, and that there have been instances in which foul play was assumed but there was none.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree that this strategy doesn't make much sense, and is not one that I utilize, aside from the one early bid I mentioned I like to place.

I also agree that some bids such as these may very well be placed by consignors shilling their own auctions. My main point is that there is no way for us to know for sure without more information, and that there have been instances in which foul play was assumed but there was none.

as long as the consignors are charged like everybody else if the 'win' their own item i fine with it..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

as long as the consignors are charged like everybody else if the 'win' their own item i fine with it..

Coming from a guy obsessed with market values that is really surprising, given the potential to run up and manipulate said market values.

[botn]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

as long as the consignors are charged like everybody else if the 'win' their own item i fine with it..

What about the fact that if this practice being done in such high volume it results in truly giving a distorted and severely inflated market value if bids are being placed simply to set new market highs? That seems to be more dangerous than simply shilling your consignments to maximize your returns.

[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree that this strategy doesn't make much sense, and is not one that I utilize, aside from the one early bid I mentioned I like to place.

I also agree that some bids such as these may very well be placed by consignors shilling their own auctions. My main point is that there is no way for us to know for sure without more information, and that there have been instances in which foul play was assumed but there was none.

Jesse, I agree that we do not know but that does not mean we should not be suspicious or curious. Someone figured out that shill bidding was going on at Mastro and everyone thought it was just business as usual. Seeing irregular bidding patters, same bidder ids over and over, high amounts of bid retractions or bids and it resulting in crushing record prices over and over (and not just on Jake's arbitrary 5% figure) certainly makes me wonder. T206 threads are the only thing here that out number those questioning PWCC but that does not mean people should turn a blind eye and not raise questions.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

Jesse, I agree that we do not know but that does not mean we should not be suspicious or curious. Someone figured out that shill bidding was going on at Mastro and everyone thought it was just business as usual. Seeing irregular bidding patters, same bidder ids over and over, high amounts of bid retractions or bids and it resulting in crushing record prices over and over (and not just on Jake's arbitrary 5% figure) certainly makes me wonder. T206 threads are the only thing here that out number those questioning PWCC but that does not mean people should turn a blind eye and not raise questions.

I agree with your assessment. I also remember Brent saying that he doesn't have access as the seller to the same information we do regarding the bid history as the seller. I don't sell on ebay and can't confirm that. He did say if someone emails him an example like the one Peter posted he will investigate, respond, and take action if appropriate. Maybe we should do that more often and see what happens.

[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree with your assessment. I also remember Brent saying that he doesn't have access as the seller to the same information we do regarding the bid history as the seller. I don't sell on ebay and can't confirm that. He did say if someone emails him an example like the one Peter posted he will investigate, respond, and take action if appropriate. Maybe we should do that more often and see what happens.

If Brent did post that, then he is mistaken. As the seller he can see the entire ids of each bidder. He also is alerted to bid retractions as they occur, where as we would need to dig for that info. As far as seeing the number of bid retractions a bidder has, he simply needs to log out or open a separate window in private browsing and click on the id in question and he can see the bid retraction history for any of his bidders. This is what eBay suggests sellers do if they seek that information.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glchen

That bidder may just really want to that MJ rookie card. He also bid on that card from PWCC last month before getting crushed:

Link

So what good did the 20 bids before his highest one do him? And why did he stop?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Yes that one certainly looks suspicious. Brent has come to this site and claimed that bidding patterns such as this are often legitimate and that for some reason there are bidders out there who as a practice place small incremental bids until they become the high bidder. Without actually investigating further we can't know for sure. If this same bidder retracted the bid that became the high bid that would be fairly definitive.

And yes, this bidder certainly won't have to worry about not receiving the end of auction notification.

I agree that not everything that looks suspicious necessarily is. All I initially said was that one sees this pattern of frenzied early bidding on high end cards in PWCC fairly commonly.