Just sad. No, not sad. Pathetic.

[Exhibitman]

What do you think of this business plan:

--Buy raw cards with minor flaws
--"Improve" raw cards
--Get them slabbed
--Consign to Probstein
--Shill auctions
--repeat

Did I miss any steps?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What do you think of this business plan:

--Buy raw cards with minor flaws
--"Improve" raw cards
--Get them slabbed
--Consign to Probstein
--Shill auctions
--repeat

Did I miss any steps?

I think there's a "deny, deflect, or ignore" step in there somewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What do you think of this business plan:

--Buy raw cards with minor flaws
--"Improve" raw cards
--Get them slabbed
--Consign to Probstein
--Shill auctions
--repeat

Did I miss any steps?

You missed the parallel step of buying centered slabbed cards with minor flaws and "improving" them.

[chernieto]

I have gotten good deals on some SGC/PSA graded pre war cards in his auctions & am happy there is someone who does the 99cent auction daily the way he does. I have noticed his consignment rates are perhaps the lowest in the indusry as well.
Shilling indeed sucks.....But I am still trying to deal with Hal Chase being banned for fixing games 100 years ago.
Paul C

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What do you think of this business plan:

--Buy raw cards with minor flaws
--"Improve" raw cards
--Get them slabbed
--Consign to Probstein
--Shill auctions
--repeat

Did I miss any steps?

While we are pointing out missed steps I'd like to highlight that that model doesn't produce any revenue without a buyer willing to pay way over historical values. As long as there are collectors that just have to have a certain card at any price there will be auctions that don't make much sense.

Anyone that has VCP access and is following certain cards know that for every shilled auction, there is some idiot pulling the trigger on a BIN at 30% over the previous sale. Which is why I don't lose any sleep over this - it's impossible for me to pay more than I'm comfortable with a card because I simply don't pay more than I am comfortable for card (or a car, dishwasher or deck reno).

[Harliduck]

[QUOTE=japhi;1270857]
Anyone that has VCP access and is following certain cards know that for every shilled auction, there is some idiot pulling the trigger on a BIN at 30% over the previous sale. QUOTE]

I will take exception to this comment. I have been that "idiot", as I am sure MANY here have been as well. When I knowingly overpay on a BIN, it's because I want/need that card, and at that time, that price is what that card is worth. And if I deem that card is worth that amount, well, than that is an accurate reading on value. ANY card is only worth what someone is willing to pay, not what any VCP or any "guide" is reporting. I often times see these guides oblivious to market realities...I see it in reverse all the time as well, our own B/S/T always has sought after cards under the "VCP" price, advertised as such, and not get a second look. Supply and demand dictate price, and often times the demand for an overpriced BIN is purchased because there is no supply to fuel the demand. Calling that purchaser an "idiot" is ignorant.

[MattyC]

[QUOTE=Harliduck;1270883]

Originally Posted by japhi

Anyone that has VCP access and is following certain cards know that for every shilled auction, there is some idiot pulling the trigger on a BIN at 30% over the previous sale. QUOTE]

I will take exception to this comment. I have been that "idiot", as I am sure MANY here have been as well. When I knowingly overpay on a BIN, it's because I want/need that card, and at that time, that price is what that card is worth. And if I deem that card is worth that amount, well, than that is an accurate reading on value. ANY card is only worth what someone is willing to pay, not what any VCP or any "guide" is reporting. I often times see these guides oblivious to market realities...I see it in reverse all the time as well, our own B/S/T always has sought after cards under the "VCP" price, advertised as such, and not get a second look. Supply and demand dictate price, and often times the demand for an overpriced BIN is purchased because there is no supply to fuel the demand. Calling that purchaser an "idiot" is ignorant.

I could not agree more, Hardi.

I personally think viewing card values exclusively through the prism of numerical grades and VCP grids is myopic. In my opinion, all cards in the same grade are not equal, and so it makes sense that they should not sell for equal values.

If one expects to pay "VCP average" for a card in GRADE X that makes all others in its grade (and some even above) look like dog meat, one is doomed to never have the pleasure of owning that card. The previous sale may have been of an overgraded card with heinous eye appeal.

As you said, a card is "worth" whatever one is willing to pay. There is no set value, ever. Each card has its own attributes, even if the sticker is identical to another sticker. Grades can be identical but cards are not. There are collectors who buy the card, and thus with no two specimens of the same card being identical, the prices-- to collectors with this view-- won't be identical either.

That said, if another collector believes all cards in GRADE X should sell for exactly the same number, to each his own and let every collector be happy.

[japhi]

[QUOTE=MattyC;1270887]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

I could not agree more, Hardi.

I personally think viewing card values exclusively through the prism of numerical grades and VCP grids is myopic. In my opinion, all cards in the same grade are not equal, and so it makes sense that they should not sell for equal values.

If one expects to pay "VCP average" for a card in GRADE X that makes all others in its grade (and some even above) look like dog meat, one is doomed to never have the pleasure of owning that card. The previous sale may have been of an overgraded card with heinous eye appeal.

As you said, a card is "worth" whatever one is willing to pay. There is no set value, ever. Each card has its own attributes, even if the sticker is identical to another sticker. Grades can be identical but cards are not. There are collectors who buy the card, and thus with no two specimens of the same card being identical, the prices-- to collectors with this view-- won't be identical either.

That said, if another collector believes all cards in GRADE X should sell for exactly the same number, to each his own and let every collector be happy.

Not to beat the VCP thing to death but all auctions that make it to VCP have images so it is possible to make an apples to apples comparison. I wasn't saying that all 5's are equal, rather VCP gives a buyer most of the info they need to make an informed decision. And with 5-7 years history on each card it's pretty easy to get a good understanding on what a card with good eye appeal in a certain grade should sell for. The fact that buyers go way over historical sales of similar condition cards (as opposed to grades) is not rational buying behavior. Which is okay.

[japhi]

[QUOTE=Harliduck;1270883]

Originally Posted by japhi

Anyone that has VCP access and is following certain cards know that for every shilled auction, there is some idiot pulling the trigger on a BIN at 30% over the previous sale. QUOTE]

I will take exception to this comment. I have been that "idiot", as I am sure MANY here have been as well. When I knowingly overpay on a BIN, it's because I want/need that card, and at that time, that price is what that card is worth. And if I deem that card is worth that amount, well, than that is an accurate reading on value. ANY card is only worth what someone is willing to pay, not what any VCP or any "guide" is reporting. I often times see these guides oblivious to market realities...I see it in reverse all the time as well, our own B/S/T always has sought after cards under the "VCP" price, advertised as such, and not get a second look. Supply and demand dictate price, and often times the demand for an overpriced BIN is purchased because there is no supply to fuel the demand. Calling that purchaser an "idiot" is ignorant.

Idiot was too strong and I would be labeling myself and idiot then as I've overpaid for a card I like.

My point was collectors pay inflated prices all the time, be it through shilling, BIN's, or just plain ignorance. We've seen lots of threads that show where a buyer pays more for a card from a consignor like PWCC or Probstein than a similar copy available at a lower BIN or an auction that closed a few days earlier that was half the price. As long as the collector is happy with his purchase I don't care if the auction was shilled, a stupid high BIN or an over graded card. Buyer beware and all that.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What do you think of this business plan:

--Buy raw cards with minor flaws
--"Improve" raw cards
--Get them slabbed
--Consign to Probstein
--Shill auctions
--repeat

Did I miss any steps?

--Profit

[nolemmings]

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