Just sad. No, not sad. Pathetic.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by japhi

Hi David: I'm new but have been reading the board for around a year and have read all those threads. I just can get myself worked up about shilling. That said, I collect mostly hockey HOF rookies - which is why i don't post often-and mostly mid grade so shilling isn't as big an issue as it is in the baseball world.

My style is closer to MattyC's, I don't get too caught up in all the BS that comes with the hobby, it's a chance for me to get away from a very competitive/high paced career that comes with all the BS I can handle.

I hate to say it, Matt, but if you are always paying 100% of what you've budgeted for the few baseball cards you do buy, you are participating in the BS that comes with the hobby. You do so through no fault of your own, of course, but you are still part of the viscous cycle.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I hate to say it, Matt, but if you are always paying 100% of what you've budgeted for the few baseball cards you do buy, you are participating in the BS that comes with the hobby. You do so through no fault of your own, of course, but you are still part of the viscous cycle.

Bill that guilt by association is a BS argument. I don't shill and not even sure if I've been shilled.

My point was very simple; I pay what I'm comfortable - and usually less, I only snipe and I do quite a bit of research before sniping. If there is a card I'm chasing that sells for 400 bucks in a good looking PSA 6 than I set my snipe for 400 bucks, usually less. When I win I generally win below the comparable. I lose way more auctions than I win.

Obviously this way of buying won't work on cards that only come up once a year but I don't play in that sandbox.

If you have a strategy for paying less for cards on Ebay I'm all ears.

PS. good discussion, I mostly lurk as I can't add much value to threads, which may in fact be the case with this thread as well!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by japhi

Bill that guilt by association is a BS argument. I don't shill and not even sure if I've been shilled.

My point was very simple; I pay what I'm comfortable - and usually less, I only snipe and I do quite a bit of research before sniping. If there is a card I'm chasing that sells for 400 bucks in a good looking PSA 6 than I set my snipe for 400 bucks, usually less. When I win I generally win below the comparable. I lose way more auctions than I win.

Obviously this way of buying won't work on cards that only come up once a year but I don't play in that sandbox.

If you have a strategy for paying less for cards on Ebay I'm all ears.

PS. good discussion, I mostly lurk as I can't add much value to threads, which may in fact be the case with this thread as well!

Matt, firstly, I want to make sure that you know I wasn't accusing you of engaging in any nefarious activity. I didn't mean to insinuate that you shill yourself. If I choose my words poorly, I apologize. It's clear to me you're an honest guy, and I can not only appreciate the strategy you employ when bidding in an auction, I've used it myself in the past. It's good common sense. What I do question is the frequency with which we are either hitting that exact ceiling, or coming unnaturally close. I see this more in our niche than I do in the modern card portion of the hobby. This has simply been my observation, so I could be way off.

To borrow your earlier metaphor, I think if one plays in the pre-war and vintage sandbox long enough, eventually we're all going to be exposed to shill bidding, much like if we buy enough cards, graded or not, eventually we're going to get a card that has been slightly trimmed, or altered in some other manner. It's a product of being in a hobby with a lot of money trading hands, and unscrupulous people who want an ever increasing share.

I agree with your comment about this being a good discussion. Ultimately, we may not accomplish anything, but as Leon said, it's important to keep these things visible.

[japhi]

Thanks Bill, I didn't think you were accusing me of anything and wasn't offended at all.

[Jewish-collector]

Why is everyone so shocked ? This is a typical thread. A member comes on to complain about a situation on eBay and/or an auction house. He wants to collect vintage baseball cards (or collect memorabilia, autographs, whatever) to a get away from his highly competitive & stressful career. The problem is he ends up having as much stress, if not more than in the hobby/business than he has in his profession.

Just come to the National & let's have a couple cold ones over dinner.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Why is everyone so shocked ? This is a typical thread. A member comes on to complain about a situation on eBay and/or an auction house. He wants to collect vintage baseball cards (or collect memorabilia, autographs, whatever) to a get away from his highly competitive & stressful career. The problem is he ends up having as much stress, if not more than in the hobby/business than he has in his profession.

Just come to the National & let's have a couple cold ones over dinner.

Cold soda's I presume?