Current HOF election results

[egri]

Originally Posted by etsmith

I've always seen the Baseball Hall of Fame as a tiered structure, with different levels for various levels of accomplishment. If you only put the best of the best in the Hall of Fame there wouldn't be very many players at all.

I think the voters generally get it right. There are a handful of all-time greats, a larger number of great-but-not-inner-circle players, a larger number of guys who can convincingly be argued one way or the other, and some of them are in or will get in eventually, some won't, and then there are a few head-scratchers.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Tabe

He's the best closer not named Mariano Rivera. I don't like closers in the Hall but it's a real position (now) and Wagner was absolutely elite at it for 15 years.

+1

- of course, I have a definite bias toward lefties, plus he finished with the Braves!



.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Seems pretty harsh to me.

So you are calling for the removal of Carlton Fisk, Tony LaRussa and other HOFers who have been convicted of DUIs?

Helton was the best fielding first baseman I ever saw. His hitting reflexes were incredible. Also a very nice man, although an introvert.

Edited to add:

Tiger Woods, Mike Tyson and Michael Phelps should all be removed from their respective Hall of Fames under the proposed standard.

well , what if DUI ended up killing someone..if still ok to be in HOF than i agree


but if you dont agree then a hypocrit...because when DUI you cant control what will happen...shouldnt get credit for failing in the attempt...if ok with DUI and killing someone and going to Hall than fine..

[G1911]

What percent of the adult population have never in their life even once driven while over the legal alcohol limit or under the influence of any drugs? I’d be shocked if the number was over 40%.

The Hall of Fame honors baseball career achievement, not everybody’s pet crusade. We’ve gone from game rigging and steroid cheating to arguing to keep out anyone who dissents with anything or someone people don’t even know and just don’t like.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

What percent of the adult population have never in their life even once driven while over the legal alcohol limit or under the influence of any drugs? I’d be shocked if the number was over 40%.

The Hall of Fame honors baseball career achievement, not everybody’s pet crusade. We’ve gone from game rigging and steroid cheating to arguing to keep out anyone who dissents with anything or someone people don’t even know and just don’t like.

The 'everyone else is doing it' defense. If kill someone with DUI, i guess can try that as a defense and see how that works out. Afterall any of those 40% could of also killed someone when over the legal limit or under the influence of drugs as well.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The 'everyone else is doing it' defense. If kill someone with DUI, i guess can try that as a defense and see how that works out. Afterall any of those 40% could of also killed someone when over the legal limit or under the influence of drugs as well.

I didn't say it was good. It is common. Personally, I am more aligned with the people against. I am an anti-drug teetotaler, but I don't think my personal views on the right way to live life have any bearing whatsoever on the Baseball Hall of Fame. I strongly doubt anyone here is so morally pure that they've never done anything negative.

I do not see why many want to turn every hall debate into pearl clutching moral or political crusades over things half the population is guilty of. It seems obvious that the Hall of Fame is not supposed to be about everybody's personal narrative, but is about actual baseball performance.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

I didn't say it was good. It is common. Personally, I am more aligned with the people against. I am an anti-drug teetotaler, but I don't think my personal views on the right way to live life have any bearing whatsoever on the Baseball Hall of Fame. I strongly doubt anyone here is so morally pure that they've never done anything negative.

I do not see why many want to turn every hall debate into pearl clutching moral or political crusades over things half the population is guilty of. It seems obvious that the Hall of Fame is not supposed to be about everybody's personal narrative, but is about actual baseball performance.

right i didnt say you dont go to the hall of fame..it is what it is

DUI whether killing someone or regular DUI that could of killed someone , both can be in the HOF...thats fine....they are the same....its fine that you can be in the HOF for any of those...... .I never said you cant still be in the HOF...i just stated that you cant split it and say DUI killed someone and not get in but DUI and lucky you didnt kill somone get in HOF would be silly...its do either of those crimes and not in HOF or be in HOF....

Really not relevant the 'everyone else is doing it' is also my point...doesnt matter if nobody else is doing it....

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by G1911

I agree with your thesis that people should not be using Mike Schmidt and Frank Thomas as the baseline for a hall of famer, but I have to disagree on CF. CF ranks very high among all positions for number of “huge offensive superstars”. Cobb, Speaker, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Griffey, Trout, etc.

I’d also remove Jimmy Collins from the list. He was widely (almost unanimously) considered the greatest 3B until Pie Traynor, even if his numbers don’t appeal to the modern eye. He was the best of his position for a generation.

I hear what you are saying about CF'ers, though after the small number of absolute legends, thre is a pretty big dropoff. Jones is the 14th best CF by B-R WAR (if one cares about that). Most positions have far more than 14 players in the Hall.

Regarding Collins, I'm not as familiar with him, so that is good to know.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by etsmith

earlywynnfan, he has 3,000 hits and over 1800 runs scored. If that's not a Hall of Famer I don't know what is.

Did you read this part: "and not until he approached 3000 hits did I ever think I was looking at a HOFer."??

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Peter -- As you suggest, Andruw's "case" is largely about the fielding as a CF. The claim is that he was in the Willie Mays category as a CF before he got heavy and then couldn't/didn't stick around to run up his hitting stats to 500 HRs or even 2000 Hits. He got to the majors as a fleet teenage prodigy and was DHing by his 30's

I find the fielding stats kind of hard to digest but he put together a run (with Gold Gloves from 1998-2007) that was historically great.

There are plenty of lesser offensive players in the HOF because of their fielding excellence -- middle infield and catchers. I think he rates highest of all outfielders in lifetime DWAR (defensive WAR)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...f_career.shtml

and scores second all-time for all fielders in something called "Total Zone Runs" which is another combined fielding metric.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...f_career.shtml

SORRY ABOUT THE WAR STATS --- didn't see Darren's post or Butch's post until I finished mine -;(

Of course that's not to say that defensive excellence means that they should be in the HOF.


--- He has a son ("Druw") who is listed as a top prospect -- he too plays CF.

As much as I like stats I'm going to go unscientific and say if Andruw Jones' defense gets him in then I want Devon White in. He was the best centerfielder I saw personally.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

As much as I like stats I'm going to go unscientific and say if Andruw Jones' defense gets him in then I want Devon White in. He was the best centerfielder I saw personally.

I'd say the same about Jim Edmonds!

[packs]

Jim Edmonds is a good name to bring up. His numbers best Jones (by a lot in batting average and OPS+) other than homers and RBIs and he has two less gloves but did win a championship. Difference in WAR is negligible too though in favor of Jones.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I'd say the same about Jim Edmonds!

Originally Posted by packs

Jim Edmonds is a good name to bring up. His numbers best Jones (by a lot in batting average and OPS+) other than homers and RBIs and he has two less gloves but did win a championship. Difference in WAR is negligible too though in favor of Jones.

Edmonds bothers me though. Not that he was a bad fielder, but I saw him make two many late jumps and bad judgements that he then rectified with an amazing play. He was diving on plays where his predecessor (White) would have just easily glided to the ball.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

As much as I like stats I'm going to go unscientific and say if Andruw Jones' defense gets him in then I want Devon White in. He was the best centerfielder I saw personally.

Jones also hit 400+ homers, including 51 one year. He brought a lot to the table besides his defense.

[rats60]

TZR
Jones 253
White 133
Edmonds 80

dWAR
Jones 24.4
White 16.8
Edmonds .4

Jones was significantly better than White defensively and Edmonds was pretty average. It isn't just about making highlight plays (Edmonds and Griffey we're good at that), it is about range and catching balls that other players couldn't. Andruw Jones was the best defensive outfielder of all time and has a higher TZR than Ozzie Smith. If Ozzie's defense was good enough to elect him to the HOF, then Andruw Jones is a Hofer.

[abothebear]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Edmonds bothers me though. Not that he was a bad fielder, but I saw him make two many late jumps and bad judgements that he then rectified with an amazing play. He was diving on plays where his predecessor (White) would have just easily glided to the ball.

Maybe you saw plays I didn’t, but I didn’t se him making late jumps and bad reads. I saw the opposite. Edmonds played shallow centerfield on purpose, to shrink the outfield for hitters, having the confidence in his reactions and reads that he could get back on everything over him, which he did.

[packs]

I don't think it makes sense to compare Andruw Jones to Ozzie Smith vis a vis defense. Ozzie played shortstop. If you look at the shortstops elected to the HOF before him, aside from Wagner, Banks, and Arky Vaughan you have a mix of mostly light to average hitting but smooth fielding players: Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker, Bobby Wallace, Rabbit Maranville, Lou Boudreau, etc.

He was a better fielder than all of them, most of which made it into the HOF on their glove, so it only made sense he would be a HOFer too.

But Andruw Jones plays centerfield. I understand it's a pivotal position too, but it's not played by the same types of players. I don't need to go through the list of centerfielders in the HOF ahead of Andruw Jones.

I don't think he's a HOFer because he was a better fielder than them.

[butchie_t]

Numbers be damned.......Go Todd GO!!!!

I really hope he makes it this year.

I watched him play in Colorado Springs, you could tell he was not destined to be in the minors long. Someone mentioned he is an introvert. I can agree with that. But a very nice person for sure. Always made time for the fans as he walked to the dugout from the club house in the Springs.

It was also fun to watch him talk to himself in almost every at bat. You could always tell he was focused when he was hitting. We sat right behind the Sky Sox dugout so I had basically a front row seat to watch him hit and field.

I got as many autographs from him that I could. It was obvious he was not long for the minors.


So, GO TODD GO!!!!


B. T.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by abothebear

Maybe you saw plays I didn’t, but I didn’t se him making late jumps and bad reads. I saw the opposite. Edmonds played shallow centerfield on purpose, to shrink the outfield for hitters, having the confidence in his reactions and reads that he could get back on everything over him, which he did.

Disagree, i saw many bad plays and late jumps and bad reads.....some of the best amazing plays were as a result of initial bad read....of course not all the time he was a good to great fielder but i think his highlight reel makes people think he was better than he really was..... how would you compare his arm to Jones

[D. Bergin]

Yeah, Edmonds falls into the Derek Jeter category. Passes the eye test...looks like a Gold Glover when you watch him everyday. Makes all the plays he's supposed to, and very few mistakes...but the analytics don't like him as much as others. Makes some plays look harder then they should be, and ends up on highlight reels in the process.

Did have some really good years in the field mixed in with some average ones.

That said, dude had an under-rated bat. .903 career OPS and a 132 OPS+.

I'd hypothesize he was kept from HOF consideration by being injured from making too many unnecessary dives in his career, and missing lots of benchmark career numbers. Played a lot of years, but missed a lot of games.

[abothebear]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Disagree, i saw many bad plays and late jumps and bad reads.....some of the best amazing plays were as a result of initial bad read....of course not all the time he was a good to great fielder but i think his highlight reel makes people think he was better than he really was..... how would you compare his arm to Jones

I didn’t follow Jones much, so I wouldn’t have a useful opinion on comparing him with Jim. My memory of Jones was that everyone as talking about him his first few years, and then he was just kind of around for a while. I’d say that that’s hardly an observation, except I was a fantasy baseball fanatic back in those days (starting around 2002), and I don’t recall ever thinking of Jones as a guy I wanted on my team. So maybe my comment elevates from “hardly an observation” to “unreliable anecdote.” Feel free to pass it along to any HOF voters you think might benefit from it:

[perezfan]

As a lifelong Reds fan, I can say without a doubt that Edmonds killed the Reds infinitely more than Andruw.... both with his bat and his glove. We never gave Andruw a second thought, but Edmonds was the Babe Ruth of his time (against the Reds).

That's my incredibly scientific analysis.

[lowpopper]

so many parrots wow

where are all the highlights of jeter making errors in the big games?

what he booted a ball at camden with a 7 run lead?

he bounced one to first on a partly sunny nick johnson bobblehead day?

you know you got the juice when people find any excuse to hate

haha parrots!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by abothebear

I didn’t follow Jones much, so I wouldn’t have a useful opinion on comparing him with Jim. My memory of Jones was that everyone as talking about him his first few years, and then he was just kind of around for a while. I’d say that that’s hardly an observation, except I was a fantasy baseball fanatic back in those days (starting around 2002), and I don’t recall ever thinking of Jones as a guy I wanted on my team. So maybe my comment elevates from “hardly an observation” to “unreliable anecdote.” Feel free to pass it along to any HOF voters you think might benefit from it:

yeah for fantasy NL leagues as the years went on..alwasy not worth drafting because of his batting average etc. He was alwasy drafted with the mid 30 year old players past their prime or always go hurt... today analogy would be brandon belts and evan longorias..back then was like Steve Finely and Luis Gonzalez...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

so many parrots wow

where are all the highlights of jeter making errors in the big games?

what he booted a ball at camden with a 7 run lead?

he bounced one to first on a partly sunny nick johnson bobblehead day?

you know you got the juice when people find any excuse to hate

haha parrots!

Ummm, I think I'm the only one that mentioned Jeter. I'm a Yankee fan and a huge Jeter fan.

Analytics don't like him defensively, even with all the Gold Gloves. Just like they don't really like Edmonds as much as his reputation says otherwise.

Nothing personal. I thought he was a great Shortstop while I was watching him play. I saw him make several plays I've never seen anyone else make. He passed the eye test with flying colors and I wouldn't have traded him for anybody during his prime with the Yanks.

Hope that clears things up...from someone else who also gets clearly irritated when others say Jeter is super over-rated, or that he was a horrible Shortstop, when he clearly wasn't. He didn't have amazing range for much of his career, but he was very workmanlike and reliable.

I've come to terms with the fact that he maybe didn't deserve all the Gold Gloves he won, but he was a solid Shortstop, whatever the analytics say about him.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ummm, I think I'm the only one that mentioned Jeter. I'm a Yankee fan and a huge Jeter fan.

Analytics don't like him defensively, even with all the Gold Gloves. Just like they don't really like Edmonds as much as his reputation says otherwise.

Nothing personal. I thought he was a great Shortstop while I was watching him play. I saw him make several plays I've never seen anyone else make. He passed the eye test with flying colors and I wouldn't have traded him for anybody during his prime with the Yanks.

Hope that clears things up...from someone else who also gets clearly irritated when others say Jeter is super over-rated, or that he was a horrible Shortstop, when he clearly wasn't. He didn't have amazing range for much of his career, but he was very workmanlike and reliable.

I've come to terms with the fact that he maybe didn't deserve all the Gold Gloves he won, but he was a solid Shortstop, whatever the analytics say about him.

Jeter was immensely overrated during his career. Then it became the narrative that Jeter was immensely overrated, which has now made him somewhat underrated because the ‘correction’ has been too extreme. Let’s throw out the eye test and accept the bad defensive analytics. He’s still a shortstop who played 20 years with a .310/.377/.440 slashline. There have been better shortstops, but only a few at most, even if one goes with his worst defensive metrics.

[Mozzie22]

Originally Posted by rats60

TZR
Jones 253
White 133
Edmonds 80

dWAR
Jones 24.4
White 16.8
Edmonds .4

Jones was significantly better than White defensively and Edmonds was pretty average. It isn't just about making highlight plays (Edmonds and Griffey we're good at that), it is about range and catching balls that other players couldn't. Andruw Jones was the best defensive outfielder of all time and has a higher TZR than Ozzie Smith. If Ozzie's defense was good enough to elect him to the HOF, then Andruw Jones is a Hofer.

Anyone that says Jim Edmonds was pretty average simply doesn't understand the game. Analytics be damned, Jim Edmonds was an exceptional defensive player, period.

As far as Jones goes, red flags and fireworks go off any time any ballplayer drops off the face of the planet as badly as he did statistically. You have to ask yourself how someone that good goes that bad so quickly.

Oh, and to compare Andruw Jones to Ozzie Smith defensively is futile. Ozzie Smith is the greatest defensive player in the history of baseball at any position.

[etsmith]

earlywynnfan, actually Biggio's 1844 runs scored is more impressive than his 3,000 hits. Only 18 players have managed to score over 1,800 runs, while there are 33 3,000 hit members.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by etsmith

earlywynnfan, actually Biggio's 1844 runs scored is more impressive than his 3,000 hits. Only 18 players have managed to score over 1,800 runs, while there are 33 3,000 hit members.

One of the reasons Biggio scored so many runs was that he hit 668 career doubles, which is 6th all time.

He also got hit by pitches at an alarming rate--285 in his career, which is 2 behind Hughie Jennings' career best. He got hit by 34 pitches in 1997 alone, a year in which he scored 146 runs.

And he stole over 400 bases in his career.

[mrreality68]

Great Stats and Great conversations bringing those Stats to life.

The day is almost year for these years selections.

Will be close for a few and big miss for others

[jayshum]

My guess is no one gets elected this year by the writers. From the ballot tracker stats, it doesn't look like Rolen, Helton and Wagner are flipping enough voters from last year to make up for the likely dropoff that is seen with voters who don't publicize their ballots. It looks like Helton and Wagner will both have bigger increases than Rolen but still likely all will fall short.

[Chuck9788]

Originally Posted by jayshum

My guess is no one gets elected this year by the writers. From the ballot tracker stats, it doesn't look like Rolen, Helton and Wagner are flipping enough voters from last year to make up for the likely dropoff that is seen with voters who don't publicize their ballots. It looks like Helton and Wagner will both have bigger increases than Rolen but still likely all will fall short.

[mrreality68]

agreed it is going to be close.

And in a few hours we shall know.

Stay tuned

Same Bat Time...Same Bat Channel...

[butchie_t]

Scott Rolen makes it in. Todd waits until next year.

Congrats Scott.

Butch

[mrreality68]

His cards will get a a spike in pricing now

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

His cards will get a a spike in pricing now

Don't see much. Never once if my life in any baseball conversation have a met a self professed huge Scott Rolen fan. Sure they exist though. Might be deserving but basically zero star power.

[Mike D.]

Guide to Scott Rolen RC's

Wagner and Helton came REALLY close. Does the addition of a few big new names next year steal votes, or do we get a big class next year.

[Exhibitman]

I am underwhelmed...

[tod41]

Scott Rolen was a high end complimentary player and not a dominant player in his era. David Wright was an all around better player than Rolen and likewise does not belong in hall of fame. That said, with Rolen in, Wright might get there despite his career being cut short.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by tod41

Scott Rolen was a high end complimentary player and not a dominant player in his era. David Wright was an all around better player than Rolen and likewise does not belong in hall of fame. That said, with Rolen in, Wright might get there despite his career being cut short.

Wright was a 7x All Star, 2x GG winner and two time SS winner.

Rolen was a ROY, 7x All Star, 8x GG winner and one time SS Winner

Peak WAR favors Rolen as well.

As hitters their 162 game averages are almost identical (eliminating the injury argument) and Rolen by the metrics, and also by the eye test apparently, was a better fielder by a decent margin.

[abothebear]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Don't see much. Never once if my life in any baseball conversation have a met a self professed huge Scott Rolen fan. Sure they exist though. Might be deserving but basically zero star power.

I was a huge fan. He was always referred to as an old-school player, because he was a head-down get-the-job-done guy (I don't know why old-school meant that). So he wasn't a glamorous guy. But he was really fun to watch, and I would probably choose him as my top 3B of the last 30 years (Arenado is right there). He was one of those few guys that seemed bigger than the game, like everyone else was in the minor leagues. It is too bad he injured his shoulder in that collision with Choi.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Wright was a 7x All Star, 2x GG winner and two time SS winner.

Rolen was a ROY, 7x All Star, 8x GG winner and one time SS Winner

Peak WAR favors Rolen as well.

As hitters their 162 game averages are almost identical (eliminating the injury argument) and Rolen by the metrics, and also by the eye test apparently, was a better fielder by a decent margin.

Personal attacks don't win arguments. Anyway:

Top 10 MVP Finishes - Wright 4 - Rolen 1

OPS Plus - Wright 133 - Rolen 122

Seasons with OPS Plus 140 or above - Wright 5 - Rolen 1

Seasons 30/30 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

Seasons 20/20 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

[molenick]

I posted a longer version of this on 7/8/2021 in a thread about neglected HOFers....it was a list of non-steroid/HGH players at each position who had the highest percentage of votes in a given year but had not been elected (at the time). Four of these players (Hodges, Rolen, Minoso, Oliva) are now in. I have not updated it based on elections since then, but based on this year, it looks like Helton will take over at first, Sheffield in right, and Wagner, Jones, and Kent will have higher percentages. There are other changes as well (like a new left fielder)...I will try and update it fully if I get a chance.

Originally Posted by molenick

Here's another "team" for your consideration. These are the (non-steroid/HGH) players at each position who got the highest percentage of votes in a given year but who are not in the Hall (the number is their single highest %). This was based on looking at roughly the top 100 players at each position and clicking on the ones I thought were good candidates for the list, so I may have missed someone.

Dick Allen would be ahead at 1b or 3b depending on what you consider him. He had more games at 1b but had more WAR at 3b (at least that's how I interpret Baseball Reference ranking him under 3b).

C Elston Howard 20.7
1b Gil Hodges 63.4
2b Jeff Kent 32.4
ss Omar Vizquel 52.6 (Dahlen 62.5 VC)
3b Scott Rolen 52.9
lf Minnie Minoso 21.1 (56.3 VC)
cf Andruw Jones 33.9
rf Tony Oliva 47.3 (68.8 VC)
sp Curt Schilling 71.1
rp Billy Wagner 46.4
1b/3b Dick Allen 68.8 VC

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by tod41

Personal attacks don't win arguments. Anyway:

Top 10 MVP Finishes - Wright 4 - Rolen 1

OPS Plus - Wright 133 - Rolen 122

Seasons with OPS Plus 140 or above - Wright 5 - Rolen 1

Seasons 30/30 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

Seasons 20/20 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

I think Wright will end up like Mattingly and most voters will think his career was too short even though his peak was very high. It just wasn't long enough because of injuries.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am underwhelmed...

Me too. Excellent player, borderline great, that's it IMO. It's telling to me that he only finished in the top ten MVP voting once, and even then he was not first on his team (Pujols) or at his position (Beltre).

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think Wright will end up like Mattingly and most voters will think his career was too short even though his peak was very high. It just wasn't long enough because of injuries.

Yeah, with 450+ fewer games than Rolen, and almost 1,650 fewer plate appearances, it's just too short a resume despite some really impressive peak numbers.

Still a very good player, though. We have to remember that NOT being in the 1% or 2% of players who make the Hall of Fame isn't a slight.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by tod41

Personal attacks don't win arguments. Anyway:

Top 10 MVP Finishes - Wright 4 - Rolen 1

OPS Plus - Wright 133 - Rolen 122

Seasons with OPS Plus 140 or above - Wright 5 - Rolen 1

Seasons 30/30 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

Seasons 20/20 - Wright 1 - Rolen 0

It was supposed to be silly, not an attack

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I think Wright will end up like Mattingly and most voters will think his career was too short even though his peak was very high. It just wasn't long enough because of injuries.

Except Peak Wright was nowhere near as good as Peak Mattingly, and I'm ambivalent about Mattingly getting in.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I wonder if they make HOF inductees learn some history before being enshrined...like not knowing half the people that played your position in the HOF already would look better if they took the time to learn that info for example for the sense of history

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I wonder if they make HOF inductees learn some history before being enshrined...like not knowing half the people that played your position in the HOF already would look better if they took the time to learn that info for example for the sense of history

Often electees will tour the Hall of Fame before induction. Not sure there's a history lesson per say, but I'm sure they learn something!