OT: Michael Jordan Mania

[Snapolit1]

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/sta...22016177295365

[rjackson44]

One sold last night 180 k dropping like flies

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

One sold last night 180 k dropping like flies

They drop like fly but $180k I would still take especially if it was bought couple years ago in the $20k to $30k range

[MattyC]

Who the fk is Darren Rovell and why should I care if he shouts out a listing? That card is the go-to for the tried-and-true fake sale scam. Pump a few through the usual platforms then hope to catch a gullible fish who thinks he’s getting a steal.

[Snapolit1]

180k would be tough to swallow if I knew I could have sold earlier this year for over 700k.

And what is the guy who paid 700k thinking today.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

They drop like fly but $180k I would still take especially if it was bought couple years ago in the $20k to $30k range

Hi what happens when you pay 400k 700 k🤭🤭

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Who the fk is Darren Rovell and why should I care if he shouts out a listing? That card is the go-to for the tried-and-true fake sale scam. Pump a few through the usual platforms then hope to catch a gullible fish who thinks he’s getting a steal.

Exactly !! It has been my belief they were doing this with certain cards Jordan Rookie Henderson Rookie to drive up the price of the under cards 7's 8's 9's ect. That's where the real money was made.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

Hi what happens when you pay 400k 700 k🤭🤭

Very true like anything else depends when you bought it.

Or on flip side you bought at 20k and sold for between the $400k and $700k time made a killing

Just like the stock market with those Robinhood stocks and people buying AMC or GameStop

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Very true like anything else depends when you bought it.

Or on flip side you bought at 20k and sold for between the $400k and $700k time made a killing

Just like the stock market with those Robinhood stocks and people buying AMC or GameStop

exactly! this is very similar to the meme stocks. anyone who has been in the hobby more than a minute saw this coming and predicted it...cards like mj rookie are just way too common to sell for 3/4 millioin deneros.

[MattyC]

I'd bet the farm most of the high sales of this card were not true sales. Money may have been transacted, sure, but they were "sales" with an * intended to pave the way for suckers to be hooked on a subsequent real sale, be it of the 10 grade or below.

The scam is atop the grifter's playbook in this unregulated hobby/market, and that card is the poster child for it. It was easy for the scammers to gobble up many copies at various grades and then sell after the manufactured spike. And they got tons of free viral hype from the cesspool/echo chambers of Twitter and Instagram, trumpeting the "sales." I guess it is a lucrative racket if one has the free time and inclination.

I've found the best way to be immune to this shit is to just collect what you love and intend to keep for the long haul. Treat cards like luxury items bought for pure enjoyment and don't get caught up in the money/investment aspect.

[packs]

I don't believe that anyone paid 700K for a Jordan rookie at any time. I know that's reported, but where's the guy who bought it? Wouldn't they show something like that off? Even Jake Paul wore his PSA 10 Charizard around his neck on his way to the ring for his fight.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't believe that anyone paid 700K for a Jordan rookie at any time. I know that's reported, but where's the guy who bought it? Wouldn't they show something like that off? Even Jake Paul wore his PSA 10 Charizard around his neck on his way to the ring for his fight.

i agree and jake paul probably was paid for that stunt...or somehow involved with the group hoping to capitalize on the sale.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't believe that anyone paid 700K for a Jordan rookie at any time. I know that's reported, but where's the guy who bought it? Wouldn't they show something like that off? Even Jake Paul wore his PSA 10 Charizard around his neck on his way to the ring for his fight.

The guy who bought the $840k Jordan with the PWCC sticker disclosed it.

Not saying anything about the price, just that it was disclosed.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

The guy who bought the $840k Jordan with the PWCC sticker disclosed it.

Not saying anything about the price, just that it was disclosed.

hi pete crazy what a sticker can do

[mrreality68]

Many cards including very high end cards are won all the time and often are never shown to the public. Many collectors are private and just buy them and tuck them away in their collections (unfortunately) and we do not see those cards again ever or for a very long time.

[packs]

No idea if that price was really paid but this article from last month is really interesting: https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...record-840000/

This is the part I find interesting:

PWCC Marketplace reported the record sale for a PSA 10 1986-87 Fleer Michael Jordan rookie card at $840,000 late Saturday night. The sale, which took place in the company’s July topped the previous mark for a Jordan rookie card by more than $100,000.

The price is far above all recent sales of PSA 10 Jordan rookie cards. After reaching a high of over $700,000 at Goldin Auctions in late January, numerous examples arrived on the market in the next several months with recent prices settling between $212,000 and $270,000.

[Snapolit1]

I'm going to start a company that, as a fair price, will put a sticker on your house in connection with your real estate sale. Some houses will be within 5% of best houses in the neighborhood, other houses will get a special sticker that says "High End" or "Good Eye Appeal". Granted I will have to make my stickers a little larger than card sellers.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

hi pete crazy what a sticker can do

I am trying to get a sticker on my t206 cobb PSA 2 - fingers crossed (kidding haha).

The easy thing to do is to knock the price of the $700k. But as mentioned earlier, these were selling for 20k just a few years ago. So even at 180k that's 9x in 2-3 years. That doesn't happen in vintage. So seeing a card run from 20k to 700k and back to 200k so mostly for the ~10-15% that bought at the top.

Also - if I have the funds to spend 700k on a Jordan I probably am not beating myself up over the drop to 200k. Yes I would be annoyed. Odds are there is plenty of other money sloshing around if that person can drop that on one specific card (assuming it was a person and not a fund).

And no, I can't relate to someone that spent 700k on a card. or 70k.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't believe that anyone paid 700K for a Jordan rookie at any time. I know that's reported, but where's the guy who bought it? Wouldn't they show something like that off? Even Jake Paul wore his PSA 10 Charizard around his neck on his way to the ring for his fight.

I did not believe it either. However, the buyer posted it on his instagram account with verification of his winning bid and payment. take that as you will. maybe its legit, maybe not.

[packs]

No idea. But as the article points out, not only was this sale 100K over the previous high, but it occurred at a time when the same card was selling for 600K less than what was paid.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

180k would be tough to swallow if I knew I could have sold earlier this year for over 700k.

And what is the guy who paid 700k thinking today.

The guy that paid 700K is thinking "that was a good use of buyers premium, nice to have my card back, let's try and sell a few more from my stack at around 500K"

These 700K sales are sellers with multiple 10's buying their own cards back to set a new high. There is no organic demand for this card at 700k or 500k. After every BS sale, the next one pops for 1/3 of the ATH.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by japhi

The guy that paid 700K is thinking "that was a good use of buyers premium, nice to have my card back, let's try and sell a few more from my stack at around 500K"

These 700K sales are sellers with multiple 10's buying their own cards back to set a new high. There is no organic demand for this card at 700k or 500k. After every BS sale, the next one pops for 1/3 of the ATH.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

The guy who bought the $840k Jordan with the PWCC sticker disclosed it.

Not saying anything about the price, just that it was disclosed.

Yah, he claimed he paid so much over market because it was such a perfect 10, and after all it had Brent's little sticker on it.

[A2000]

Only $50 shipping for a $6.5 million sale??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Thread on the PWCC 10.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=305262

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by japhi

The guy that paid 700K is thinking "that was a good use of buyers premium, nice to have my card back, let's try and sell a few more from my stack at around 500K"

These 700K sales are sellers with multiple 10's buying their own cards back to set a new high. There is no organic demand for this card at 700k or 500k. After every BS sale, the next one pops for 1/3 of the ATH.

That is my thinking as well. Classic market manipulation/attempt to create FOMO.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by japhi

The guy that paid 700K is thinking "that was a good use of buyers premium, nice to have my card back, let's try and sell a few more from my stack at around 500K"

These 700K sales are sellers with multiple 10's buying their own cards back to set a new high. There is no organic demand for this card at 700k or 500k. After every BS sale, the next one pops for 1/3 of the ATH.

Exactly. That's how their game works.

Okay, Peter, just gonna let your posts function as mine now as we think the same thing lol.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Exactly. That's how their game works.

Okay, Peter, just gonna let your posts function as mine now as we think the same thing lol.

I'll do the same and then neither of us has to post.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'll do the same and then neither of us has to post.

Make that three of us.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'll do the same and then neither of us has to post.

But Mantle is a different story......right

[MattyC]

Oh, I'm sure some people fake-sell Mantles and Cobbs and try to work the scam du jour with every type of card/player they can to the extent they can.

The Jordan Fleer card is just so right for the scam because the scammers can also make good money selling it across other, cheaper price ranges. In contrast, trying to do it with cards that cost 10k+ to buy in for say the PSA 1s is not as optimum.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Oh, I'm sure some people fake-sell Mantles and Cobbs and try to work the scam du jour with every type of card/player they can to the extent they can.

The Jordan Fleer card is just so right for the scam because the scammers can also make good money selling it across other, cheaper price ranges. In contrast, trying to do it with cards that cost 10k+ to buy in for say the PSA 1s is not as optimum.

This one Matt…..Price Highly Unlikely

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Bowman...-127632-2357-0

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Oh, I'm sure some people fake-sell Mantles and Cobbs and try to work the scam du jour with every type of card/player they can to the extent they can.

The Jordan Fleer card is just so right for the scam because the scammers can also make good money selling it across other, cheaper price ranges. In contrast, trying to do it with cards that cost 10k+ to buy in for say the PSA 1s is not as optimum.

Especially if the 10s are worked on.

[MattyC]

Link doesn't work for me, but was that the 52B that went off on eBay a ways back for some super-anomalous number? If so, I remember that one well; many of us suspected it was an attempt to start a run up on that card at the time. Bet it's one and the same "sale." Certainly was long an undervalued card yet broke out a little too much and too suddenly in that sale, LOL. Seems there's an art to pulling the scam off just right and that one came on too strong

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Especially if the 10s are worked on.

Good point. Overall the "barrier to entry," so to speak, makes certain cards much better tools for the scam than others.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Link doesn't work for me, but was that the 52B that went off on eBay a ways back for some super-anomalous number? If so, I remember that one well; many of us suspected it was an attempt to start a run up on that card at the time. Bet it's one and the same "sale." Certainly was long an undervalued card yet broke out a little too much and too suddenly in that sale, LOL. Seems there's an art to pulling the scam off just right and that one came on too strong

Yes it was the one that sold for $42,600 2/14/21 in PWCC

[packs]

The same thing has been happening with many key cards. Look at the prices for 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinsons. When scanning the 57 sales listed under Sold, 22 percent of them came from one seller.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

The same thing has been happening with many key cards. Look at the prices for 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinsons. When scanning the 57 sales listed under Sold, 22 percent of them came from one seller.

There are sellers whose prices on certain types of cards I just view with extreme skepticism. 2016 all over again, in some ways. At least then you could see the encrypted IDs and bidding history.

[packs]

If you take a look at the Sold listing for the 1953 Topps Satchel Paige, another card that has appreciated quickly and to new heights, you will see the same seller over and over again there as well.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by packs

If you take a look at the Sold listing for the 1953 Topps Satchel Paige, another card that has appreciated quickly and to new heights, you will see the same seller over and over again there as well.

you are correct and it means we all have to be more aware and more careful on how we purchase, some times from whom we purchase and for how much.

That is what makes this type of forum so important and valuable. To stay informed and get educated be each

Thanks to all

[Snowman]

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

[Snapolit1]

I thought I read somewhere that in the PSA backlog there are something like 13,000 Jordan cards waiting to be graded.

Originally Posted by Snowman

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

[Snapolit1]

Actually what I saw was this article about what PSA graded in one month (June).

In one month they graded 2700 1990-91 Fleer.

The bulk of the modern cards graded by PSA–some 277,000—were basketball cards and 50,000 of those featured one player: Michael Jordan. That would seem to indicate a lot of collectors took advantage of last year’s Collectors Club special that offered a chance to grade most standard issue Jordan cards for less than $10. Most of the Jordan cards graded were from 1989-1991 including 2,700 1990-91 Fleer. 7.6% of those were graded Gem Mint 10 and 43% were given a 9. PSA has now graded over 26,000 1990-91 Fleer Jordan cards.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Actually what I saw was this article about what PSA graded in one month (June).

In one month they graded 2700 1990-91 Fleer.

The bulk of the modern cards graded by PSA–some 277,000—were basketball cards and 50,000 of those featured one player: Michael Jordan. That would seem to indicate a lot of collectors took advantage of last year’s Collectors Club special that offered a chance to grade most standard issue Jordan cards for less than $10. Most of the Jordan cards graded were from 1989-1991 including 2,700 1990-91 Fleer. 7.6% of those were graded Gem Mint 10 and 43% were given a 9. PSA has now graded over 26,000 1990-91 Fleer Jordan cards.

They ran a Michael Jordan quarterly special and are grading those cards now. Of course there's a lot. But these aren't 1986 Fleer Jordans. Literally zero of them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

More than it's worth is one of the understatements of all time. PWCC S indeed. From a man who claims not to be a professional grader, no less. Give me a deleted break.

[packs]

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

Not only that, but assuming an honest auction, there must have been a second bidder who wanted it ALMOST as much? Too much to believe.

[packs]

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

Theater of the absurd.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They ran a Michael Jordan quarterly special and are grading those cards now. Of course there's a lot. But these aren't 1986 Fleer Jordans. Literally zero of them.

There was a sub a few years back that had 3 86 Jordan 10's in one submission. Hardly a rare card if you can hit 3 dimes in one submission.

There is a lot of 13 of them for sale right now ffs.

Card is massively manipulated, multiple guys own multiple copies and it is ridiculously easy to control the price on this card.