OT: Michael Jordan Mania

[Snowman]

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

[Snapolit1]

I thought I read somewhere that in the PSA backlog there are something like 13,000 Jordan cards waiting to be graded.

Originally Posted by Snowman

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

[Snapolit1]

Actually what I saw was this article about what PSA graded in one month (June).

In one month they graded 2700 1990-91 Fleer.

The bulk of the modern cards graded by PSA–some 277,000—were basketball cards and 50,000 of those featured one player: Michael Jordan. That would seem to indicate a lot of collectors took advantage of last year’s Collectors Club special that offered a chance to grade most standard issue Jordan cards for less than $10. Most of the Jordan cards graded were from 1989-1991 including 2,700 1990-91 Fleer. 7.6% of those were graded Gem Mint 10 and 43% were given a 9. PSA has now graded over 26,000 1990-91 Fleer Jordan cards.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Actually what I saw was this article about what PSA graded in one month (June).

In one month they graded 2700 1990-91 Fleer.

The bulk of the modern cards graded by PSA–some 277,000—were basketball cards and 50,000 of those featured one player: Michael Jordan. That would seem to indicate a lot of collectors took advantage of last year’s Collectors Club special that offered a chance to grade most standard issue Jordan cards for less than $10. Most of the Jordan cards graded were from 1989-1991 including 2,700 1990-91 Fleer. 7.6% of those were graded Gem Mint 10 and 43% were given a 9. PSA has now graded over 26,000 1990-91 Fleer Jordan cards.

They ran a Michael Jordan quarterly special and are grading those cards now. Of course there's a lot. But these aren't 1986 Fleer Jordans. Literally zero of them.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They ran a Michael Jordan quarterly special and are grading those cards now. Of course there's a lot. But these aren't 1986 Fleer Jordans. Literally zero of them.

There was a sub a few years back that had 3 86 Jordan 10's in one submission. Hardly a rare card if you can hit 3 dimes in one submission.

There is a lot of 13 of them for sale right now ffs.

Card is massively manipulated, multiple guys own multiple copies and it is ridiculously easy to control the price on this card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by japhi

There was a sub a few years back that had 3 86 Jordan 10's in one submission. Hardly a rare card if you can hit 3 dimes in one submission.

There is a lot of 13 of them for sale right now ffs.

Card is massively manipulated, multiple guys own multiple copies and it is ridiculously easy to control the price on this card.

I wonder, too, how many have been "helped" into that 10 holder. A card doctor favorite, I imagine.

LOL the subheading on the lot of 13 -- YOU CAN CONTROL THE MARKET!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wonder, too, how many have been "helped" into that 10 holder. A card doctor favorite, I imagine.

LOL the subheading on the lot of 13 -- YOU CAN CONTROL THE MARKET!

The guy that hit the three is a known card doctor and had been buying 8s and 9s in volume. 100% chance those three had a haircut prior to submission.

[Michael B]

Where are Vin Diesel, Scott Caan and Ben Affleck when you need them? This is almost a classic pump and dump. These days they don't need phone banks to find the rubes; they have so-meds (my word) which these suckers follow faithfully.

It is like looking at the alumni list of Clown College.

[maniac_73]

I still cant tell the difference between a 9 and a 10 and the cost between them is nothing but an elaborate marketing scheme to me.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

I still cant tell the difference between a 9 and a 10 and the cost between them is nothing but an elaborate marketing scheme to me.

I couldn't agree more, but now we are lucky enough to have the people taking a vig on the sale of the 10's telling us which 10's better than other 10's lol. The image of Arthur Fonzerelli on some water skis comes to mind.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They ran a Michael Jordan quarterly special and are grading those cards now. Of course there's a lot. But these aren't 1986 Fleer Jordans. Literally zero of them.

OK. I stand corrected. Thanks.

[MattyC]

Just for perspective, there are over a thousand more 1986 Fleer Jordans in Mint 9 PSA holders alone (2800) as there are 1952 Topps Mantles in all PSA grades (~1700), not taking the handful of PSA/DNA signed examples into account. I'd imagine the spread gets much wider factoring in Jordans deemed mint by BGS.

[Schlesinj]

Basketball is huge around the world and I suspect we are seeing international appeal to one of the most recognized faces in the world for the last 35 years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

All these conspiracy theories crack me up. I'm not saying market manipulations never happen, but reading this thread would give someone the impression that every new high is a fake sale. Surely, that's not the case.

The 840k Jordan RC was a real sale by a well known high end collector who posted proof of purchase on social media. He paid "more than it's worth" because he believed it to be one of the best, if not the best, 10s in existence. Sorta like a MBA Black or PWCC S. It's like BGS's black label super premium pricing. Some people care about that stuff. The market clearly does. So did this guy. It's not a fake sale.

There are 328 PSA 10s in existence, and probably half of those have early PSA flips and if cracked out today would get 9s. This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

More than it's worth is one of the understatements of all time. PWCC S indeed. From a man who claims not to be a professional grader, no less. Give me a deleted break.

[packs]

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not just more than it's worth. There's over half a million dollars difference from what the cards were selling at average and this 800K sale. Even if you wanted the "best of the best" how can it cost a half million dollars? We're talking about almost imperceptible differences between 10's.

Not only that, but assuming an honest auction, there must have been a second bidder who wanted it ALMOST as much? Too much to believe.

[packs]

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Another good point. And I think it's important to remember we're talking about 10's only. Cards that have been deemed "perfect" for lack of a better term. It's not a half million dollars difference between a 9.5 and a 10.

Theater of the absurd.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not only that, but assuming an honest auction, there must have been a second bidder who wanted it ALMOST as much? Too much to believe.

That's the part I find most incredible. A buy-it-now would seem relatively easy to believe. Straight auction? No way.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Eric72

That's the part I find most incredible. A buy-it-now would seem relatively easy to believe. Straight auction? No way.

I don't think it's hard to understand at all. The card has provenance, it was just pulled from a pack so no doctoring, and it is arguably the best of all PSA 10 Jordan rookiess. If you are a high end collector do you want to be one of 100 or do you want to have the #1 best example?



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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I don't think it's hard to understand at all. The card has provenance, it was just pulled from a pack so no doctoring, and it is arguably the best of all PSA 10 Jordan rookiess. If you are a high end collector do you want to be one of 100 or do you want to have the #1 best example?



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And who has examined all the PSA 10 Jordans to be in a position to make any such determination? This isn't like saying the card is the best of the FOUR 52T Mantle 10s. How many are there again? Oh wait, 319. I respect your knowledge but that doesn't sound at all persuasive to me.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This is the 52 Mantle of basketball cards. They're not exactly super common. Not in high grade at least.

Sure they are. There are dozens of them on Ebay at any given time in 9 or 10. There's 16 PSA 10s on Ebay right now in four lots. If somebody wants a PSA 9 or 10, they can have one anytime they want.