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  #1251  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:16 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT


This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season

Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ?

Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb

Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose

Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards

Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated)

Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects

Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1263 >> 1278.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your question.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-10-2021 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
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  #1252  
Old 04-12-2021, 04:10 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

This AB 350 of "Kid" Elberfeld is another "fat" one (1 15/32 inches wide). I'm finding more of these "fat" AB's than
I thought I had in my AMERICAN BEAUTY collection.

Hey guys
I'm still waiting for some one to chime in and explain (theories are welcomed) why American Lithographic cut these
AB cards narrower than the standard size T206's.


--


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-13-2021 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Added information.
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  #1253  
Old 04-13-2021, 07:02 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


I've said this before, and I'll say it again......I do NOT understand how Grading Company's (PSA, SGC, etc.) grade T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY cards with an "A".

Take for example this Jennings card. I acquired this beauty many years ago. Because of the A grade on it, I purchased it for a very reasonable price.





However, over the years, I felt it should have received a NUMERIC grade. So a few years ago, when SGC was still situated in New Jersey, I carefully cracked it out
of its plastic capsule and drove an hour to SGC and submitted this raw card to be graded (again).

------

My expectations were realized. About an hour later, this was the result Somewhere, sometime there is justice in this world




TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1254  
Old 04-13-2021, 08:33 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


I've said this before, and I'll say it again......I do NOT understand how Grading Company's (PSA, SGC, etc.) grade T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY cards with an "A".

Take for example this Jennings card. I acquired this beauty many years ago. Because of the A grade on it, I purchased it for a very reasonable price.





However, over the years, I felt it should have received a NUMERIC grade. So a few years ago, when SGC was still situated in New Jersey, I carefully cracked it out
of its plastic capsule and drove an hour to SGC and submitted this raw card to be graded (again).

------

My expectations were realized. About an hour later, this was the result Somewhere, sometime there is justice in this world




TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.


And now the same card resides in a PSA holder

Jennings AB.jpg
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  #1255  
Old 04-13-2021, 08:59 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

What is your point, Pat ?

This is nothing new. I have already noted (in another thread recently) that I eventually sold this Jennings card to David Hall at the National.

And of course, David had it re-graded by PSA.



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1256  
Old 04-13-2021, 09:18 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
What is your point, Pat ?

This is nothing new. I have already noted (in another thread recently) that I eventually sold this Jennings card to David Hall at the National.

And of course, David had it re-graded by PSA.



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
The point is this is how the pop reports get skewed especially on the lower pop cards. This Jennings has now been in three different holders. The SGC
pop report lists 3 different Jennings one hand American Beauty's when actually there's only one.

Last edited by Pat R; 04-13-2021 at 09:49 PM.
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  #1257  
Old 04-14-2021, 06:30 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
The point is this is how the pop reports get skewed especially on the lower pop cards. This Jennings has now been in three different holders. The SGC
pop report lists 3 different Jennings one hand American Beauty's when actually there's only one.

I'm not sure what you are driving at ?

Are you suggesting that collectors be "forbidden" to RE-SUBMIT their cards for grading in order to get a GRADE, which truly represents their card ? ?
Just because re-submitting cards will "skew" the Pop Reports.

This has been going on since Day 1 in the grading business.

Come on Pat, GET REAL ! !


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1258  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:09 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
I'm not sure what you are driving at ?

Are you suggesting that collectors be "forbidden" to RE-SUBMIT their cards for grading in order to get a GRADE, which truly represents their card ? ?
Just because re-submitting cards will "skew" the Pop Reports.

This has been going on since Day 1 in the grading business.

Come on Pat, GET REAL ! !


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
No Ted I don't know where you come up with that from what I posted what's
with the attitude?
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  #1259  
Old 04-14-2021, 07:31 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


This Reulbach is a little on the "fat" side (1 7/16" wide). Acquired it many years ago when I was working on my AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) run.

In recent years I traded it to a good friend on this forum who collects Chicago Cubs cards.


.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1260  
Old 04-15-2021, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 8,970
Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


One nice aspect of most "fat" AB 350 (frame) cards is how nicely centered their framed back is....such as this Del Howard card (1 7/16" wide).

Are there anymore of these "fat" AB's out there ? If so, let's see them.

. .




TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1261  
Old 04-17-2021, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


Apparently, we've run out of "fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY (AB) cards. So, let's begin with the "thin". My skinniest is an AB 460 Chance, whose width is a narrow 1 1/4 inches.
And, of course (as I mentioned before) you'll find all these "skinny" T206 cards in the AB 460 group.






These four are also less than the usual AB width of 1 3/8 inches. These are precisely 1 5/16 inches.





TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1262  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 8,970
Default T206 REFERENCE....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


........ Piedmont ......... Sovereign ....... Sweet Caporal___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards____POLAR BEAR .......... Hindu ....... American Beauty


Chase (trophy) is on of my favorite cards in the 460-only Series. This card's width conforms exactly to the AMERICAN BEAUTY standard cut. Most of them, that I have seen,
are less than 1 3/8inches.

Fat or thin, show us your AMERICAN BEAUTIES.

.
^---------------- 1 5/8 " ----------------^ . . . ^----------------- 1 3/8 " -----------------^





TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1263  
Old 06-06-2021, 05:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

These colorful T209-1 cards remind me of T206's. Needless to say, they are quite rare. And this is probably why I enjoy the challenge in finding them.
Also, I prefer the blue lettering in their captions. The blue ink is more distinct than the brown captions on the T206's.

And I have to thank Leon for providing me four of these T209 cards approx. 10 years ago....which completed my set.

Some catalogues date them as a 1910 issue. However, research indicates these cards may have been issued in late 1909. Net54 members, Mike Peich
and Tim Newcomb have done some outstanding research on this set, and you can read all about it in.... https://t209-contentnea.com/t209-overview/




I have mis-placed Booles (I'll post a scan of him when I find him).


Hoffman is my favorite in the set.

.


I have said enough for now.....therefore, let's see some of your T209 cards

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-08-2021 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #1264  
Old 06-07-2021, 07:15 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

OK, carrying on......shown here is a sampling of the T209-2 CONTENTNEA cards. These B/W photo-type cards were issued in 1910, and a
complete set consists of 222 subjects.

You old-timers will find this story interesting. Some years ago Mike Peich called me regarding a bunch of T209-2 cards that he knew I had.
Since we both live in Pennsylvania, we decided on a meeting place mid-way between our residences. And sure enough it was Willow Grove.
Remember the Marriott Hotel on Rte. 611....that's where we did our deal and for 2 hours (or more) reminiscing about the good ole days at
the famous Willow Grove BB card Show.

T209-1 cards



Furthermore, note that the T209-2 cards have the standard bottom line for Federal Tobacco Tax purposes.
On the other hand, the T209-1 cards were not printed with it. So, employees at the Factory (Wilson, NC)
hand stamped the bottom line information on the backs of these cards. Anyhow, many of these cards are
missing this stamp.

T209-1 backs




I'm still waiting to see your pretty looking T209-1 cards. I think the color printing quality of these 16 cards is a tad better than the T206's.

What's your opinion ?


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.
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  #1265  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:13 PM
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[QUOTE=tedzan;2111012]These colorful T209-1 cards remind me of T206's. Needless to say, they are very rare. And, this is probably why I enjoy the challenge in finding them./QUOTE]

Ted, congrats for having completed this T209-1 set of 16 cards. But I am curious as to why you say "they are very rare." The combined PSA & SGC pop reports show a total of 495 T209-1 cards graded, with the least number graded being 24 each for Cooper & Gilmore. As we know, there are many pre-War cards for which only one, two, or three examples are known to exist. How do you describe these cards? IMHO, T209-1s are scarce or perhaps even quite scarce, but not rare.
__________________
Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210-2, W504, & Queen City Cigar. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery of WaJo.
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  #1266  
Old 06-08-2021, 08:02 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards

Hi Val

I'm surprised that the population reports list that many T209-1 cards. Anyhow, the synonym for "scarce" is "rare".
So, I'll modify my comment to say "quite rare"

I completed this set 10 years ago. And like Ringo Starr once sang...."It Don't Come Easy".

At BB card shows you seldom see them (and this is so, even at the National).

After all these years, I recently upgraded my Hoffman card. I have a few more that need up-grading.

I'll leave you by asking you this: Have you tried putting together this set of 16 cards ?


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TED Z

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  #1267  
Old 06-08-2021, 08:34 PM
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Ted, thanks for the enlightenment. I have long thought that rare meant scarcer than scarce.

No Ted, I have never tried to put together a T209-1 set, as I am not a set collector, with one exception, that being the 1925 Holland Creameries set of 18 cards.
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  #1268  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:20 AM
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I have always thought rarity referred to the number of cards in existence, while scarcity referred to the availability of the card. A rare card will probably always be scarce, but a scarce card does not necessarily have to be rare.

T209-1 is my favorite set, and was the first prewar set I completed. I think the pop numbers are somewhat inaccurate, as I recall seeing numerous examples of T209s getting cracked and reslabbed by different TPGs. Some of the cards are certainly tougher than others. Hoffman is probably the easiest, and Booles is probably the hardest. I think I've only seen 2 Booles cards come up for sale in the past seven years, and I bought one of them. So as Ted hinted, putting together the set will take some time and patience. But it is doable, especially because it's only 3% of the size of the Monster!

ETA: About seven years ago, I took substantial notes on the PSA and SGC pop reports for T209-1. At that time, there were 398 total cards slabbed by both companies. So that number has gone up by about 100 since then. The hardest card was Booles with 17 total examples, and the easiest was Hoffman with 38.

Here is my set:

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Last edited by Bliggity; 06-09-2021 at 09:25 AM.
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  #1269  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:01 AM
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Default T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliggity View Post
I have always thought rarity referred to the number of cards in existence, while scarcity referred to the availability of the card. A rare card will probably always be scarce, but a scarce card does not necessarily have to be rare.

T209-1 is my favorite set, and was the first prewar set I completed. I think the pop numbers are somewhat inaccurate, as I recall seeing numerous examples of T209s getting cracked and reslabbed by different TPGs. Some of the cards are certainly tougher than others. Hoffman is probably the easiest, and Booles is probably the hardest. I think I've only seen 2 Booles cards come up for sale in the past seven years, and I bought one of them. So as Ted hinted, putting together the set will take some time and patience. But it is doable, especially because it's only 3% of the size of the Monster!

ETA: About seven years ago, I took substantial notes on the PSA and SGC pop reports for T209-1. At that time, there were 398 total cards slabbed by both companies. So that number has gone up by about 100 since then. The hardest card was Booles with 17 total examples, and the easiest was Hoffman with 38.

Here is my set:

Hi Dan

Very nice, thanks for displaying your set. I, too, am suspect of the pop report total of these cards. These T209-1 cards...."Don't Come Easy"....and, they don't come "CHEAP".
With respect to that latter comment....I suspect due to their high $$$$ value, many of these cards have been resubmitted, hoping for an increase in their $$$$ value.

Dan....do you also collect the T209-2 cards ?


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  #1270  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:44 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series.....show us your T209 cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
Ted, thanks for the enlightenment. I have long thought that rare meant scarcer than scarce.

No Ted, I have never tried to put together a T209-1 set, as I am not a set collector, with one exception, that being the 1925 Holland Creameries set of 18 cards.
Val......will I see you at the Philly Show this forthcoming weekend ?

It was approx. 10 years ago at the Philly Show when you absolutely "made my day". You offered me this 1910 COUPON Matty,
and we a nice deal on it.

You are really one of the great guys in this hobby.


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  #1271  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:48 AM
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Here is my example from this set, Walsh, shown the day after a bar fight.

Brian (Not part of any TPG population report. My card probably spent a night in jail, whereas many of his brothers are doing 25 to life in their plastic prisons)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t209oneWalsh 001.jpg (57.2 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg t209oneWalshback 002.jpg (66.9 KB, 107 views)
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  #1272  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliggity View Post
I have always thought rarity referred to the number of cards in existence, while scarcity referred to the availability of the card. A rare card will probably always be scarce, but a scarce card does not necessarily have to be rare.

T209-1 is my favorite set, and was the first prewar set I completed. I think the pop numbers are somewhat inaccurate, as I recall seeing numerous examples of T209s getting cracked and reslabbed by different TPGs. Some of the cards are certainly tougher than others. Hoffman is probably the easiest, and Booles is probably the hardest. I think I've only seen 2 Booles cards come up for sale in the past seven years, and I bought one of them. So as Ted hinted, putting together the set will take some time and patience. But it is doable, especially because it's only 3% of the size of the Monster!

ETA: About seven years ago, I took substantial notes on the PSA and SGC pop reports for T209-1. At that time, there were 398 total cards slabbed by both companies. So that number has gone up by about 100 since then. The hardest card was Booles with 17 total examples, and the easiest was Hoffman with 38.

Here is my set:


I'm not trying to start anything Dan but there have been 9 sales of 7 different Booles in the past two years.

Here's the 7 different Booles that sold

2-26-21
Booles 2-26-21.jpg

1-17-21
Booles 1-7-21.jpg

5-12-20
Booles 5-12 20.jpg

12-8-19
Booles 12-8-19.jpg

10-5-19
Booles 10-5-19.jpg

8-11-19
Booles 8-11-19.jpg

6-25-19
Booles 6-25-19.jpg
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  #1273  
Old 06-09-2021, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I'm not trying to start anything Dan but there have been 9 sales of 7 different Booles in the past two years.
Wow! That's very surprising to me. I take it all back, T209-1 is an easy set to finish I know back a few years ago they were very hard to find, and I believe there was at least one person on here who was just missing Booles to complete their set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Dan....do you also collect the T209-2 cards ?
Not yet. I've been thinking about it, but I do hope that someone will talk me out of it. As a completionist set collector, I don't need that kind of stress in my life!
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  #1274  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:40 PM
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Default T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliggity View Post
Not yet. I've been thinking about it, but I do hope that someone will talk me out of it. As a completionist set collector, I don't need that kind of stress in my life!
Hi Dan

Years ago, I had about 80 of of the T209-2 cards. But like you, I've always been a set collector, and at any given time I am in the process of completing several sets.
So, it did not appeal to me to continue collecting T209-2 cards. After considering that it would have been a very, very long journey.


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  #1275  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:44 PM
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It is interesting that 3 of the Booles Pat showed as well as my Walsh all have paper damage in basically the same spot on the bottom right border (yes, my Walsh also has a ton of other damage).

Probably just a coincidence, but thought I would point it out anyway.

Brian
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  #1276  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Val......will I see you at the Philly Show this forthcoming weekend ?

It was approx. 10 years ago at the Philly Show when you absolutely "made my day". You offered me this 1910 COUPON Matty,
and we a nice deal on it.

You are really one of the great guys in this hobby.

Ted, thanks for the kind words.

I was planning to come to this weekend's Philly Show only if the National was either cancelled or held but with significant Covid-19 restrictions; it currently appears that there will be a normal or near-normal National this year. I may make it to one of the Philly Shows later this year.

Every time you have showed your T213-1 Coupon of Matty, I have recalled our trade and realized how delighted you were to obtain this card. And, truth be told, I have felt a bit of trader's remorse, despite being delighted with the T206 Sovereign 350 WaJo portrait I received from you. This is because I'm partial to very scarce/rare cards, and I really liked having the Matty as my T213-1 type card, but of course, one has to give up something good to get something good.
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210-2, W504, & Queen City Cigar. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery of WaJo.
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  #1277  
Old 06-10-2021, 09:54 AM
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Amazing Contentneas everyone! I too highly recommend Mike and Tims research on the subject. Mikes website dedicated to the issue is so well done and a true wealth of knowledge. I recently started a Series 1 set and I'm 136 deep on the Series 2 set. I'm partial to the black and white issues but these cards have the most interesting images and backgrounds. I even have a theory Jim Thorpe is seen in the background of a card. Have to get home to verify the player on the card. Good stuff!

Last edited by Jason; 06-10-2021 at 09:58 AM.
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  #1278  
Old 06-10-2021, 06:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 REFERENCE....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Amazing Contentneas everyone! I too highly recommend Mike and Tims research on the subject. Mikes website dedicated to the issue is so well done and a true wealth of knowledge. I recently started a Series 1 set and I'm 136 deep on the Series 2 set. I'm partial to the black and white issues but these cards have the most interesting images and backgrounds. I even have a theory Jim Thorpe is seen in the background of a card. Have to get home to verify the player on the card. Good stuff!

Jason

I'd love to see the card with Jim Thorpe's image on it.

As you probably know, Thorpe played for Rocky Mount and Fayetteville during the Summers of 1910-11.

Supposedly, those two brief experiences in professional Baseball cost Jim his medals and trophies, which
he won in the 1912 Olympics in Stockholm. He was forced to return them.

Gee, it would have been really neat if they had included a card of Thorpe in this set.

Good Luck putting together the color set.


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  #1279  
Old 06-15-2021, 05:53 AM
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Ok here we go and this is just a theory. As mentioned Jim Thorpe played for Fayetteville in the 1910-1911 season. I believe that some cards depict images from preseason camps as a few players that have cards seem to never have played a game with the designated team. Background players on some cards seem to be waiting their turn to take infield practice. So that brings me to the Lavoia card from the Highlanders team. Notice the very stocky player in the background. He is awaiting his turn as possibly the backup first baseman. Of course I have zero proof of it actually being Jim Thorpe. Its just fun to think it is!
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Last edited by Jason; 06-15-2021 at 05:55 AM.
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  #1280  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:36 AM
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I bought my first T209-1 in 2017, but didn't buy my second one for another three years. In the past year I've purchased 4 of the 5 I own. At this rate I hope to complete the set in about three years!

I really enjoy collecting the more obscure sets. These guys were playing in C and D leagues, in what I have to imagine, not the best conditions and not for a great deal of money. There is a certain mystique surrounding this time in baseball that originally drew me to T206 cards. While I still collect T206, I get a little more excited each time I add one of these cards to my set.

I also own 13 of the T209-2. The B&W add a little more to the grittiness of baseball at that time. I doubt I'll ever complete the set, but I will continue to collect these gems as they come along.

T209-1 Bourquise.jpgT209-1 Bourquise B.jpg

T209-1 Bourquise c.jpgT209-1 Bourquise B C.jpg

T209-1 Crockett.jpgT209-1 Crockett B.jpg

T209-1 Hoffman.jpgT209-1 Hoffman B.jpg

T209-1 McGeehan.jpgT209-1 McGeehan B.jpg
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  #1281  
Old 06-18-2021, 07:02 AM
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Hey Dan,

As you know I have the complete 1st series. If you are obsessed with completion, T209-2 is not for you. I have focused on just the North Carolina teams for several years now. There are 114 total and I only have 55. I haven't been able to add even 1 new one for many months although I am actively looking. Quite frustrating!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliggity View Post
Wow! That's very surprising to me. I take it all back, T209-1 is an easy set to finish I know back a few years ago they were very hard to find, and I believe there was at least one person on here who was just missing Booles to complete their set.



Not yet. I've been thinking about it, but I do hope that someone will talk me out of it. As a completionist set collector, I don't need that kind of stress in my life!
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  #1282  
Old 06-18-2021, 01:22 PM
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Default Cigarette Cards

I don't have very many but, when I sold my original collection in 1986 I saved the cigarette cards that I had:
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File Type: jpg T206Front.jpg (73.3 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg T206Back.jpg (76.0 KB, 30 views)
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