Just popped this T206 out of its plastic, guess what grade it was given ?

[FrankWakefield]

Sgc30

[Rob D.]

In the "old" days," many dealers who were selling it would have said: excellent-mint.

In the "old days," many of those same dealers who were negotiating to buy it from a collector would have said: good.

Moral to the story: TPG has ruined the hobby.

[steve B]

Odd but probably factory right edge? I'll say an undeserved A.

Nice looking card.

Steve B

[phikappapsi]

I'm guessing AUTH

The right edge looks pretty hacked up. If they didn't deem it trimmed, then I'm guessing 2. Some staining, moderate corner wear, and some very mild paper loss.

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

I'm guessing AUTH

The right edge looks pretty hacked up. If they didn't deem it trimmed, then I'm guessing 2. Some staining, moderate corner wear, and some very mild paper loss.

+1

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

I'm guessing AUTH

The right edge looks pretty hacked up. If they didn't deem it trimmed, then I'm guessing 2. Some staining, moderate corner wear, and some very mild paper loss.

I agree

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

In the "old" days," many dealers who were selling it would have said: excellent-mint.

In the "old days," many of those same dealers who were negotiating to buy it from a collector would have said: good.

Moral to the story: TPG has ruined the hobby.

And now dealers that are selling it will say its severely under-graded

When buying the same card its really over graded

[E93]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

In the "old" days," many dealers who were selling it would have said: excellent-mint.

In the "old days," many of those same dealers who were negotiating to buy it from a collector would have said: good.

Moral to the story: TPG has ruined the hobby.

+1

Right on target.
JimB

[E93]

As for the TPG assessment, for all the reasons mentioned above my guess would be "authentic", but if given a numerical grade, PSA 2/SGC 30.
JimB

[tiger8mush]

psa 3 (mk) or SGC 20

nice card Ted, no matter the technical grade.

[chaddurbin]

since no name of tpg was given...i'd go PRO 8

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

since no name of tpg was given...i'd go PRO 8

Now that's funny.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

In the "old" days," many dealers who were selling it would have said: excellent-mint.

In the "old days," many of those same dealers who were negotiating to buy it from a collector would have said: good.

Moral to the story: TPG has ruined the hobby.

In the "new days" there are color fake fro joys slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there is a trimmed T206 Wagner slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there are PSA graded T206's in SCP auctions that have impossible front back combinations

In the "new days" a $50.00 Ozzie Smith PSA 10 sells for $20,000.00

Moral to the story - TPG ruined the hobby and is a cancer

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by danmckee

In the "new days" there are color fake fro joys slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there is a trimmed T206 Wagner slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there are PSA graded T206's in SCP auctions that have impossible front back combinations

In the "new days" a $50.00 Ozzie Smith PSA 10 sells for $20,000.00

Moral to the story - TPG ruined the hobby and is a cancer

Excellent points, Dan. It's good to know that you've stopped having your cards submitted for TPG and aren't selling slabbed cards any longer.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Excellent points, Dan. It's good to know that you've stopped having your cards submitted for TPG and aren't selling slabbed cards any longer.

Keep fighting the good fight.

If only they had graded HIS cards a little higher ...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

If only they had graded HIS cards a little higher ...

.........or not lost them.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Excellent points, Dan. It's good to know that you've stopped having your cards submitted for TPG and aren't selling slabbed cards any longer.

Keep fighting the good fight.

I have stopped submitting actually Rob after my last SGC debacle with the Old Judges and the Maryland T205 find.

But you will still see slabbed cards in my cases and on my store.

If I buy them already slabbed and they were bought for resale, then I usually sell them slabbed.

If I buy them slabbed and they are for my personal set, well I think we already know where that giant box of broken slabs in my basement came from.

take care
Dan

[T206Collector]

If you believe that the internet has given our hobby a terrific boost, it is naive to ignore the positive impact that third party grading has had. While graders make mistakes -- being only human after all -- it is a tremendous comfort to know in most cases what flaws a card has that are not visible in a computer scan. Not only do you have a reasonable expectation of what you are buying, but when it is time to sell, you have a reasonable likelihood of selling the same card you bought.

Long gone are the days of the card purchased through the mail that was advertised as Nrmt/MT, only to have it show up in VG -- and then having to sell it as a VG card when the time is right.

To ignore all that good because of a few negative experiences is really missing the forest for the trees.

[frankbmd]

All systems are flawed, but

If I buy a loaf of bread that has a bit of mold on it when I open it, do I stop eating all together?

If my car develops an oil leak or a squeaky wheel, do I take an axe to it and start walking and never buy another?

If a card dealer sells me $50,000 worth of raw cards for $100,000 claiming they are NM and then years later, when I need some cash, offers me $20,000 because the same cards are only VG in his humble opinion, do I shoot him?

I would submit that the answers are no, no and no.

In the first case the merchant would likely replace the loaf of bread or refund my money and I would continue eating.

In the second case, the dealer or a mechanic would fix the problem and I would continue driving.

In the third case my $50,000 worth of "graded" cards would average EX, a few might be NM and some might be VG, even if they were all in slabs with PSA 5 or SGC 60 affixed. Reasonable sellers and buyers could agree upon the market value at the time of purchase and at the time of sale. The original buyer might make a profit or a loss depending on market values at the time of purchase and the time of sale. The original dealer could make a "reasonable" profit at the time of sale and then make a "reasonable" profit when he resells the same card. Plus he would not need to invest in a bullet proof vest and if he was savvy, he would find that he could expand his market on something called the internet.

I have over 1000 graded cards and probably 100,000 raw cards. I once placed 237 raw cards spread out on my dining room table and observed them for a week. They remained in the same place for the week, became a bit dusty, but not once did any of them take a breath.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by danmckee

In the "new days" there are color fake fro joys slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there is a trimmed T206 Wagner slabbed by PSA

In the "new days" there are PSA graded T206's in SCP auctions that have impossible front back combinations

In the "new days" a $50.00 Ozzie Smith PSA 10 sells for $20,000.00

Moral to the story - TPG ruined the hobby and is a cancer

I do agree with the Ozzie Smith point, it is well taken I believe.

As to your other points, color fake fro joys, trimmed T206 Wagners and T206 impossible front back combinations existed well before the grading companies, they existed for sale on the internet, in autions and at card shows before grading companies. That goes for any and all fradulantly produced or altered cards. The Pete Rose rookie counterfeits that flooded the market came well before grading companies.

The grading companies IMO have done a great job at weeding out many, upon many of these fake, fraudulant and altered cards from the market. Are they perfect, of course not. But they have eliminated tons of these types of cards from the market and for that I think they should be commended.

With any grading/authentication system cards will slip through the system. I think the number of cards that correctly get rejected for being fake, trimmed and altered far out number the cards that slip through the system. And IMO that is a huge benefit to the hobby and collectors.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by markf31

......color fake fro joys, trimmed T206 Wagners and T206 impossible front back combinations existed well before the grading companies......

markf31

Sorry to differ with you regarding your above statement. The T206 impossible front/back combos are a relatively recent phenomena. A bunch of
the "re-fronted" fakes surfaced circa 1999-2000.

These fake cards were modified by professional paper restorer(s) to the extent that they fooled PSA and SGC graders.

Here are some examples of these T206 impossible front/back fakes that have been graded in the past 12 years......

Green Cobb / Red HINDU

Matty portrait / Red HINDU

Cobb (bat off shoulder) / PIEDMONT 150

Joe Doyle N.Y. Nat'l / POLAR BEAR

Green Cobb / CYCLE 350 ...... this one recently sold for $3000 in an auction


This is just a sample, as there are quite a few more, and perhaps others on this forum will identify more of them.

P.S. Quite a number of collectors payed some big $$$$ for some of these cards, having trusted the TPG's. And, as is noted in the last example....
there are still a few of these fakes in circulation.


TED Z

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here are some examples of these T206 impossible front/back fakes that have been graded in the past 12 years......

TED Z

Similarly, what is scary is that many of these were called out due to their front/back combos being impossible, not due to catching the alteration. How many cards (slabbed or raw) are deemed to be authentic simply because the front/back combo is possible, yet the card has been altered to make a more desirable (expensive) front/back combination?

[T206Collector]

You may fault TPG for grading impossible front/back combinations.

But can you imagine how many more fraudulent cards would be in circulation if it wasn't for TPG?