Poll: Is this Cobb legit, or is it a "rotten peach"?

[perezfan]

Any logical person would come to the conclusion that it's a photocopy of the original. There's no way that every nuance of the original signature could be perfectly replicated in that fashion.

Any disagreement here lies within the semantics of the "Master Forger" statement. Does "master forger" imply it was actually drawn by hand? Or that the forger possesses state of the art technology to replicate the signature onto another piece of paper (and make it look like ink from a pen?)

Any claim that it was hand-drawn is preposterous, as this is simply an impossibility. So for me, it comes down to a semantics issue (or an interpretation of PSA's wording).

[RichardSimon]

That is why I practically begged Don to send it to me.
I offered to pay out of my own pocket, so Don does not suffer any further loss, just for the sake of studying this item to see how it looked so if I ever ran across the "Hewlett Packard master forger" again, it would be easily identifiable.
Also a word to the wise - anyone finding old baseball cards at an estate sale, be careful if there is a cut HOF autograph in the group of cards, it will be the master forger at work again.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Any logical person would come to the conclusion that it's a photocopy of the original. There's no way that every nuance of the original signature could be perfectly replicated in that fashion.

So for me, it comes down to a semantics issue (or an interpretation of PSA's wording).

this! it's a xerox, but psa can't really say so because it would hurt their rep and open themselves up for more xerox'ed submissions in the future (that they might deem authentic).

you guys trying every which way to reason so donavon would send out the cut is pretty funny. it's not a great loss to the hobby if destroyed. we will not gain any more knowledge by examining the piece. you guys just want to catch psa so bad in what you perceive is some conspiracy and deception, but like perezfan said it's just a game of semantics. let it go, there's been no big cover-up like you guys have hinted all thread.

[David Atkatz]

It is certainly not a "game of semantics." Their "explanation" is out-and-out bullsh$t. They certed and slabbed a print. The "experts" (without whose imprimatur no autograph can be trusted) can't tell an inkjet print from the real McCoy. And they don't have the integrity to admit they f%#ked up.

[RichardSimon]

Sorry Karl, here is the term that was used by PSA according to a post by Don (in the BST thread):
"it seems that there is an amazing forger out there."
they said amazing, I said master,,, I say tomato,,they say tomatoh,,,,etc.,etc.
If I am guilty of exaggeration, well then I am sorry about that.
And as for other comments in this thread by chad, if PSA examined this piece originally and deemed it authentic, then examined it again and realized what they did, don't you think that they dont want the entire hobby world to know that they blew it to an HP printer. Would they not prefer the hobby to think they blew it to an "amazing forger." (whose pen skipped in the exact same place that Cobb's did in the original 3x5 sig. in Ron's collection). I think that would be the very definition of a coverup and the coverup always turns out to be worse than the original mistake, just look at your history books.
And I think it is pretty amazing that an "amazing forger" drops his best work in an estate sale, mixed in with some Goudey cards. Just the place where he can minimize his money.
Where else has his work appeared??? If he is truly amazing and truly a human, then you would think that his work would be all over the hobby. If the forger is truly amazing and not a human perhaps there are many other examples of his work out there that have slipped into the hobby the same way that the Cobb cut has. I can hear the sound of hammers now, cracking open those plastic tombs.

[travrosty]

Here is the relevant phrase by donavon.,,


The cut was, in fact, deemed a forgery. After a lengthy discussion with the operations manager, it seems that there is an amazing forger out there. The cut was not a laser copy as previously speculated, but a well made forgery by someone with a very skilled hand.


-----

note he said it was not a laser copy, it was a hand copy by a great forger. The guy was so good and thorough that he made sure to copy the stray dots in the background too!

It is impossible to copy it exact like that by hand, and is baloney.

so thats why we would like to inspect it.

[GrayGhost]

It is a BS explanation for Sure, unless the "forger" put the green dots in the EXACT place etc. Id say its laser..haha.

PSA is trying to save face on the laser issue.. oh well.

[travrosty]

For people on this board who haven't seen it, here is

1. Ron's cobb

2. the cut cobb with circles around dots in the background that correspond to the same dots in Ron's example.

3. the cut cobb without the circles so you can look for them.



For it to not be a computer printed copy is not possible. The background was scanned and printed out too.

[David Atkatz]

I'd go so far as to say that Donavon can't send the cut to Richard, because he doesn't have it, and will never have it. I'm sure that PSA told him he'd be reimbursed only if they (PSA) kept the item.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

this! it's a xerox, but psa can't really say so because it would hurt their rep

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

let it go, there's been no big cover-up

Huh? You say that it's a xerox, but then say PSA really can't admit that or it would hurt their rep. Then you say there's no cover up. Ummm, isn't denying you were wrong when you know that you were the same as covering something up? It is where I come from.

[thecatspajamas]

Hopefully Donavon can at least provide a better scan of his cut before he destroys it. Staring at that fuzzy image trying to compare dots is messing with my eyes...

[vintagetoppsguy]

If Donavon is worried about it getting lost or stolen in the mail and falling into the wrong hands, couldn't he simply cut it in half before he sends it? Right down the middle between the "y" and the "C." That would eliminate any potential fraud/scam and I believe Richard could still examine it in two separate pieces, right?

[David Atkatz]

I'll say it again:

Donavon can't send the cut to Richard, because he doesn't have it, and will never have it. I'm sure that PSA told him he'd be reimbursed only if they (PSA) kept the item.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I'll say it again:

Donavon can't send the cut to Richard, because he doesn't have it, and will never have it. I'm sure that PSA told him he'd be reimbursed only if they (PSA) kept the item.

From Donovan's own words, "PSA/DNA will be sending the cut back to me to do as I wish."

[David Atkatz]

post removed

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If Donavon is worried about it getting lost or stolen in the mail and falling into the wrong hands, couldn't he simply cut it in half before he sends it? Right down the middle between the "y" and the "C." That would eliminate any potential fraud/scam and I believe Richard could still examine it in two separate pieces, right?

exactly,

i have also asked donovan to show the cut with a current copy of the newspaper or SI when he gets it to prove that he got it back.

he wont do it, and he wont let anyone look at it. guaranteed.

prove us wrong, sir.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If Donavon is worried about it getting lost or stolen in the mail and falling into the wrong hands, couldn't he simply cut it in half before he sends it? Right down the middle between the "y" and the "C." That would eliminate any potential fraud/scam and I believe Richard could still examine it in two separate pieces, right?

That would be no problem for me.

[chaddurbin]

psa is a multi-million dollar company. they wouldn't want to admit fault unless absolutely have to. it's not in their best interest to admit they couldn't get a xerox'd cut correct, would be bad for their bottom line. that's their sop. the whole master forger thing is a farce and excuse given on the phone, it's probably not in writing.

i'm surprised OP is saying he's getting the cut back. usually when psa reimburse they'd destroy the evidence and probably make you sign a non-disclosure and be done with it, like other big companies.

edit: take up a collection and fly richard to louisiana. we've gone this far. i feel too committed to this stupid ty cobb cut now.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i'm surprised OP is saying he's getting the cut back. usually when psa reimburse they'd destroy the evidence and probably make you sign a non-disclosure and be done with it, like other big companies.

I guess it depends on what they reimburse him for. It is my understanding that Donovan was the sumbitter of the item. If that is the case, they would only have to reimburse him for the authentication fees. Legally the cut would still be his. I guess they would have the option to buy it back at fair market value, but if they're only reimbursing him the authentication fees then the cut is still his.

If he were to have purchased the cut already authenticated and then sent it back in for re-evalution, then that is a different story. Then they would have to reimburse him full fair market value. At least that's my understanding of how it works.