How to find the commons.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

First, it’s his card and he can do what he wishes. Second, you have it already in lower grade?? Why the whining?

Never said it wasn't.

What I was given for a response was literally he didn't want to break the set up. That's why I responded with an offer, but got nothing back. I did so knowing he had no set parameters with grades because he has [A up to 7] most in the 1 to 4 range.

I don't have the lower card I just know of one I could obtain. He would still have a full set and I could get the card that has personal value I'm looking for.

My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Never said it wasn't.



What I was given for a response was literally he didn't want to break the set up. That's why I responded with an offer, but got nothing back. I did so knowing he had no set parameters with grades because he has [A up to 7] most in the 1 to 4 range.



I don't have the lower card I just know of one I could obtain. He would still have a full set and I could get the card that has personal value I'm looking for.



My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

This is the most self-centered response I've ever seen.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

This is the most self-centered response I've ever seen.

How so?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

Regardless of how pure your motives are, if the current owner isn't really interested in selling, your options are to move on or to make him a stupid high offer that he could never refuse.

Quite honestly, paying way too much for it is about the only way you can really put the strength of your desire into action.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by raulus

Regardless of how pure your motives are, if the current owner isn't really interested in selling, your options are to move on or to make him a stupid high offer that he could never refuse.

Quite honestly, paying way too much for it is about the only way you can really put the strength of your desire into action.

Yep, but I don't give them the back story of why I'm wanting the items. I just know many don't even know who they are, and their value is way different then mine.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set.

Your collection is more important than anyone else's. In your mind only.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Your collection is more important than anyone else's. In your mind only.

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

Sounds like it's time to break out your check book to buy that card.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by raulus

Sounds like it's time to break out your check book to buy that card.

It's not an option. I'm not a jerk to people. Obviously he was done talking, and I don't push people. I offered and that's all I could do.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not an option. I'm not a jerk to people. Obviously he was done talking, and I don't push people. I offered and that's all I could do.

Cool cool.

I guess next time you'll have to make a more enticing initial offer.

Best of luck tracking down all the cards you're looking to pick up for your town.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

It's not a collection. It's town history preserved for future generations of a small town of about 140 people. It's people that are blood relatives of mine. I can post personal letters if you think it's just a collection you'll soon find out it's much deeper then that for me. Jerry just passed last year at 92 almost 93 years old. Trust me my intention is far more then a collection like yours may be. Every penny I spend is lost, but the value it brings for others can't be measured.

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

My ownership? What's your drug of choice? Stupidity?

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Rationalize it any way you want, but your ownership of the card is no more important or valid than the current owner who wants it for their set. This mindset hurts the hobby more than any type of collector.

You're spot on. I was born in the same town as Mark Lewis and Joe Nuxhall. Being a Cincy fan you most certainly know them both but outside of Ohio, most collectors don't even remember Mark Lewis even though he was once one of the games top prospects and went #2 overall in the 88 draft.

I PC both of them and I would guess I'm one of the larger Lewis collectors there are. Given he played primarily during the junk wax area, there aren't a ton of rarities out there. However, if I came across some random late 90's 1/1 or something, I'd think that card would mean more to me than most people but at the end of the day I'd really have no idea and it wouldn't matter anyways. The OP may very well be correct that he desires the card more than the owner, but he seems to believe he deserves the card more and that's why he came on here griping about which collectors hurt the hobby more lol.

I wish the OP well but coming out to a forum full of the type of collectors who could actually help him attain the cards he's looking for and immediately ask who we believe are the worst among us is not doing him any favors.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

You're spot on. I was born in the same town as Mark Lewis and Joe Nuxhall. Being a Cincy fan you most certainly know them both but outside of Ohio, most collectors don't even remember Mark Lewis even though he was once one of the games top prospects and went #2 overall in the 88 draft.

I PC both of them and I would guess I'm one of the larger Lewis collectors there are. Given he played primarily during the junk wax area, there aren't a ton of rarities out there. However, if I came across some random late 90's 1/1 or something, I'd think that card would mean more to me than most people but at the end of the day I'd really have no idea and it wouldn't matter anyways. The OP may very well be correct that he desires the card more than the owner, but he seems to believe he deserves the card more and that's why he came on here griping about which collectors hurt the hobby more lol.

I wish the OP well but coming out to a forum full of the type of collectors who could actually help him attain the cards he's looking for and immediately ask who we believe are the worst among us is not doing him any favors.

I'm sorry, but I included myself as an option in the list. I was actually just curious. I'd say some people are thin skinned or a nerve above the skin was hit.

My main question was how to find common players, and somehow some have missed that others hit the nail on the head. I think a look back may help you understand my take because I'm sorry, but you're really far off on your conclusion.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I'm sorry, but I included myself as an option in the list. I was actually just curious. I'd say some people are thin skinned or a nerve above the skin was hit.

My main question was how to find common players, and somehow some have missed that others hit the nail on the head. I think a look back may help you understand my take because I'm sorry, but you're really far off on your conclusion.

Haha, it's not thin skinned when you throw out passive aggressive insults about collectors, regardless if it's pointed at an individual or a certain segment of the hobby. A simple message like the one below would've got you the answers you were looking for and potentially someone on here helping you get the cards you're after.

"Hello everyone, I'm trying to pick up a few rare cards of a couple of obscure players that happen to have grown up in my hometown. I'd like to pick up the best copies if possible, as the cards will end up in a local museum some day. I haven't had any luck with a few set collectors that had high grade examples of the cards I'm looking for, any suggestions? Thanks!"

That's all you needed to say.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

It is unusual to find such unanimity on this board. That folks are universally telling you that you are in the wrong ought to give you pause, but you plow ahead nonetheless. I agree with them and won't belabor that point.

But, I am going to point something out. While you state you are a single player collector, you also state that the items will be donated to the town of Clemons, a booming metropolis of 140 people. Presumably this will happen upon your death? Or not? If so, exactly how old are you? A 25 year old promising to donate material is far different than an 85 year old. Either way, you might want to consider that donating materials to a town of 140 may actually be a pretty poor means of historical preservation.

Don't believe me? Take 90 minutes and drive down to Van Meter ( pop. 1484) and visit the Bob Feller Museum. Wait. You can't. It closed and the building is now the Van Meter townhall with only some of the material preserved and on display. If a town 10 times the size of Clemons can't support a museum for an all time great, how does that bode for your Clemons collection?

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

It is unusual to find such unanimity on this board. That folks are universally telling you that you are in the wrong ought to give you pause, but you plow ahead nonetheless. I agree with them and won't belabor that point.

But, I am going to point something out. While you state you are a single player collector, you also state that the items will be donated to the town of Clemons, a booming metropolis of 140 people. Presumably this will happen upon your death? Or not? If so, exactly how old are you? A 25 year old promising to donate material is far different than an 85 year old. Either way, you might want to consider that donating materials to a town of 140 may actually be a pretty poor means of historical preservation.

Don't believe me? Take 90 minutes and drive down to Van Meter ( pop. 1484) and visit the Bob Feller Museum. Wait. You can't. It closed and the building is now the Van Meter townhall with only some of the material preserved and on display. If a town 10 times the size of Clemons can't support a museum for an all time great, how does that bode for your Clemons collection?

Again, I'm not a single player collector that'sthe label I used to describe myself for others to recognize or connect with . I named the 3 individuals that I look for, Only 1 has cards from the pro level in Verne Clemons. The other Jerry Mehlisch has 1 card released in 1953 when he played for the Fargo Moorhead Twins. Dunn was the owner of the Cleveland Indians. There's many more individuals that I try to find items for, but they're not for here to discuss.

Bob Feller is a totally different situation. That was a money grab that disappeared once he died. This isn't for money making, it's for preserving our small towns history.

I'm trying to keep all my items in our small town, but not sure we can build and house all that is needed. I come from a small town that is part of a larger county, and I do have another option with a historical society in a larger city. I just want to give our small town the first shot. Some items have already left for the larger viewing. I just don't think it has the same meaning. Adrian "Cap" Anson is the king there. Many of the items I was given from Jerry before he passed were discussed and he was OK with both options. I'm also going to try to get an article in the local paper digging back into the 40s and 50s for the Clemons 9 baseball team and in the pre 1920s and early 1920s for Verne. I want to get in touch with as many families as I can before I start with that project. Both to get permission and storied facts and see if they have anything to offer of their family member they'd like to group together for people to view. The paper had an archive we can pull from as well. None of what I'm doing is for personal or monetary gain. It's not just me, but a group effort. We just lost one of the last town elders, and she had vast knowledge from the 30s forward. We have one last older gent that is also donating lots of historical items. There's great pride in these small dying towns. Have you ever eaten at a DQ aka Dairy Queen? The co-founder was from here originally. Dick "Sherb" Noble. This town has had a lot of people that did great things for its size.

You're a collector of baseball, I'm a so called "collector" of this towns history which happens to include some baseball talents. I'm preserving not collecting.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Again, I'm not a single player collector that'sthe label I used to describe myself for others to recognize or connect with . I named the 3 individuals that I look for, Only 1 has cards from the pro level in Verne Clemons. The other Jerry Mehlisch has 1 card released in 1953 when he played for the Fargo Moorhead Twins. Dunn was the owner of the Cleveland Indians. There's many more individuals that I try to find items for, but they're not for here to discuss.



Bob Feller is a totally different situation. That was a money grab that disappeared once he died. This isn't for money making, it's for preserving our small towns history.



I'm trying to keep all my items in our small town, but not sure we can build and house all that is needed. I come from a small town that is part of a larger county, and I do have another option with a historical society in a larger city. I just want to give our small town the first shot. Some items have already left for the larger viewing. I just don't think it has the same meaning. Adrian "Cap" Anson is the king there. Many of the items I was given from Jerry before he passed were discussed and he was OK with both options. I'm also going to try to get an article in the local paper digging back into the 40s and 50s for the Clemons 9 baseball team and in the pre 1920s and early 1920s for Verne. I want to get in touch with as many families as I can before I start with that project. Both to get permission and storied facts and see if they have anything to offer of their family member they'd like to group together for people to view. The paper had an archive we can pull from as well. None of what I'm doing is for personal or monetary gain. It's not just me, but a group effort. We just lost one of the last town elders, and she had vast knowledge from the 30s forward. We have one last older gent that is also donating lots of historical items. There's great pride in these small dying towns. Have you ever eaten at a DQ aka Dairy Queen? The co-founder was from here originally. Dick "Sherb" Noble. This town has had a lot of people that did great things for its size.



You're a collector of baseball, I'm a so called "collector" of this towns history which happens to include some baseball talents. I'm preserving not collecting.

Collectors like us are also curating history and preserving it.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I'm trying to keep all my items in our small town, but not sure we can build and house all that is needed. I come from a small town that is part of a larger county, and I do have another option with a historical society in a larger city. I just want to give our small town the first shot. Some items have already left for the larger viewing. I just don't think it has the same meaning. Adrian "Cap" Anson is the king there. Many of the items I was given from Jerry before he passed were discussed and he was OK with both options. I'm also going to try to get an article in the local paper digging back into the 40s and 50s for the Clemons 9 baseball team and in the pre 1920s and early 1920s for Verne. I want to get in touch with as many families as I can before I start with that project. Both to get permission and storied facts and see if they have anything to offer of their family member they'd like to group together for people to view. The paper had an archive we can pull from as well. None of what I'm doing is for personal or monetary gain. It's not just me, but a group effort. We just lost one of the last town elders, and she had vast knowledge from the 30s forward. We have one last older gent that is also donating lots of historical items. There's great pride in these small dying towns. Have you ever eaten at a DQ aka Dairy Queen? The co-founder was from here originally. Dick "Sherb" Noble. This town has had a lot of people that did great things for its size.

You're a collector of baseball, I'm a so called "collector" of this towns history which happens to include some baseball talents. I'm preserving not collecting.

Since preserving history is your higher stated goal, why not focus on writing a book about the town? You're already doing a ton of research, talking to elderly people who have priceless historical insight to the town. There are many, many more facets to Clemons than just the 3 baseball personalities you mention. There's their history, yes, but that could be expanded greatly in your book. Pictures of the houses where these men grew up, biographies of them, and other members of the town's baseball team (including rosters of the team through the years, maybe some accounts of games, and so on.)

What would preserve history better - giving that community a well-researched, multi-faceted history gleaned from the recollections of elderly residents, photos of the town, its building and residents through the decades, or a few baseball cards, which, to the average person, are simply small pictures?

You mention an article you're looking for. When you find stuff like that, include it in your book for long-term preservation, for all to see and read. You could also search articles in other newspapers that have accounts of games played when the Clemons team visited their town.

Before I retired, I was a business analyst, and the first and most important thing was to examine and clarify requirements before thinking about implementation solutions. It seems to me your requirement - your passion - is to preserve the history of Clemons. You clearly understand that time is of the essence, because people with invaluable recollections and insights are steadily disappearing. However, you have, in my opinion, made the common mistake of leaping to an implementation solution (collecting a small handful of obscure baseball cards.) If you go back to the core requirement, you may find that general research might be far more valuable than, for example, replacing a card that has a crease and missing paper on the back, with a nicer copy.

If you're familiar with Larry Ritter's book, The Glory of Their Times, you know about his method, which was to interview elderly players while recording the conversations (with their permissions of course.) You could do that, with veteran farmers, policemen, firemen, grocery store owners, mayors, etc.

I've collected cards for basically my entire life and I can tell you honestly, if someone had a T206 Wagner on display 30 minutes from me, I wouldn't bother to see it. Why? For me, seeing a picture of it would suffice. Put photos of the cards you seek in your book and that will satisfy the great majority of people interested in the subject of the town of Clemons.

You could have a ton of fun with such a project instead of being frustrated with your elusive pursuit of scarce pieces of cardboard. You could accomplish far, far more in terms of historical preservation across all areas of life, with a nice focus on the town baseball team, if that's your main passion. Instead of searching in vain for someone who will sell you that 1953 minor league card, seek out an advanced collector who might provide you with a high resolution scan of it.

Your book, self-published probably, would be available to all, and forever into the future. Unlike a handful of cards, which will end up somewhere, at best in some obscure display with little context.

You obviously are a very skilled writer. You have a deep passion. Preserving history really matters to you. My humble suggestion is, re-examine your core requirement, re-define you implementation strategy, and proceed to document the full history of the town of Clemons.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Since preserving history is your higher stated goal, why not focus on writing a book about the town? You're already doing a ton of research, talking to elderly people who have priceless historical insight to the town. There are many, many more facets to Clemons than just the 3 baseball personalities you mention. There's their history, yes, but that could be expanded greatly in your book. Pictures of the houses where these men grew up, biographies of them, and other members of the town's baseball team (including rosters of the team through the years, maybe some accounts of games, and so on.)

What would preserve history better - giving that community a well-researched, multi-faceted history gleaned from the recollections of elderly residents, photos of the town, its building and residents through the decades, or a few baseball cards, which, to the average person, are simply small pictures?

You mention an article you're looking for. When you find stuff like that, include it in your book for long-term preservation, for all to see and read. You could also search articles in other newspapers that have accounts of games played when the Clemons team visited their town.

Before I retired, I was a business analyst, and the first and most important thing was to examine and clarify requirements before thinking about implementation solutions. It seems to me your requirement - your passion - is to preserve the history of Clemons. You clearly understand that time is of the essence, because people with invaluable recollections and insights are steadily disappearing. However, you have, in my opinion, made the common mistake of leaping to an implementation solution (collecting a small handful of obscure baseball cards.) If you go back to the core requirement, you may find that general research might be far more valuable than, for example, replacing a card that has a crease and missing paper on the back, with a nicer copy.

If you're familiar with Larry Ritter's book, The Glory of Their Times, you know about his method, which was to interview elderly players while recording the conversations (with their permissions of course.) You could do that, with veteran farmers, policemen, firemen, grocery store owners, mayors, etc.

I've collected cards for basically my entire life and I can tell you honestly, if someone had a T206 Wagner on display 30 minutes from me, I wouldn't bother to see it. Why? For me, seeing a picture of it would suffice. Put photos of the cards you seek in your book and that will satisfy the great majority of people interested in the subject of the town of Clemons.

You could have a ton of fun with such a project instead of being frustrated with your elusive pursuit of scarce pieces of cardboard. You could accomplish far, far more in terms of historical preservation across all areas of life, with a nice focus on the town baseball team, if that's your main passion. Instead of searching in vain for someone who will sell you that 1953 minor league card, seek out an advanced collector who might provide you with a high resolution scan of it.

Your book, self-published probably, would be available to all, and forever into the future. Unlike a handful of cards, which will end up somewhere, at best in some obscure display with little context.

You obviously are a very skilled writer. You have a deep passion. Preserving history really matters to you. My humble suggestion is, re-examine your core requirement, re-define you implementation strategy, and proceed to document the full history of the town of Clemons.

Thanks for this.

The great thing about it is many of the elders already documented much of the towns history. My biggest regret is to not have recorded many of our conversations before their passing. I do know one of the main contributors was my elderly neighbor who passed away last year at the age of 98. She was sharp as a tack, and was a huge source of information. Not only about Clemons, but her family history and the history of life in general. It will be hard not seeing her out gardening this spring. Much of what you suggested has been written about. I know her copy of Clemons history has many hand written updates since 1982.

Screenshot_20250202_203100_eBay.jpg

[Vintage Vern]

I'll also include a Jerry Mehlisch interview. He has also since passed away last year at age 92. I have multiple hand written letters from multiple people, but I will not show them here for various reasons. This is something his wife Shari won't mind. Jerry actually was born in the same small town of Liberty township (as did my Grandmother) just a few miles outside of Clemons.

https://youtu.be/uarIlNclWPw?si=syD8i5maCKKLdYwV

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Here's the truth. Most people don't care about the players they collect. They care about completing a set. It doesn't matter who's in it.

You're wrong. That may have been the truth fifty years ago, but these days it appears that the majority of card collectors are not set builders. Collectors these days generally have a more narrow focus for two reasons:

1) There's an incredible amount of different cards out there. Even traditional Topps Baseball sets average out to over 700 different cards.

2) The price of cards these days makes collecting all the cards in a set extremely expensive.

[doug.goodman]

Wow. This thread is amazing. So many comments I wanted to make as I made my way from the start.

I skipped a couple pages because Vern is evidently the reincarnation of the recently departed bigfoot, so it's possible that somebody already said this but :

Common cards are by definition "common" = "easy to find".

Vern (possibly previously known as bigfoot) none of the players you are looking for fit that definition.

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Never said it wasn't.

What I was given for a response was literally he didn't want to break the set up. That's why I responded with an offer, but got nothing back. I did so knowing he had no set parameters with grades because he has [A up to 7] most in the 1 to 4 range.

I don't have the lower card I just know of one I could obtain. He would still have a full set and I could get the card that has personal value I'm looking for.

My reasons are multiple, but I want the best I can get within reason. Everything I find will be donated to the town in which the player(s) came from. I have 2 players to find items for Jerry Mehlisch, Verne Clemons and non player owner Jim Dunn. They all came from the small town of Clemons Iowa. Same town I'm from. I can guarantee my desire far outweighs any guy just trying to get a complete set. All 3 are distant relatives as well.

My only response to that amazing display of narcissism is to post this picture of a completely unique Heilbroner card which is for sale for $5000 insured postage paid.

Doug

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Wow. This thread is amazing. So many comments I wanted to make as I made my way from the start.

I skipped a couple pages because Vern is evidently the reincarnation of the recently departed bigfoot, so it's possible that somebody already said this but :

Common cards are by definition "common" = "easy to find".

Vern (possibly previously known as bigfoot) none of the players you are looking for fit that definition.





My only response to that amazing display of narcissism is to post this picture of a completely unique Heilbroner card which is for sale for $5000 insured postage paid.

Doug

Well, Clemons commons sure are scarce by what I've witnessed from pop reports and registry from all TPG. I would imagine that's one clue of how easy they are to come by. The other is I have yet to get one here for multiple years I've been here.

I've already passed on 2 Heilbroner cards the last one sold for under 20 bucks on ebay.

Then this guy here on Net54 said he might have something odd, but then said he didn't know if he still had it and then said nothing until now.

Screenshot_20250205_033521_Email.jpg

Screenshot_20250205_033439_Email.jpg

Keep your card!!! People that can't even respond, I wouldn't trust to deliver something anyway. I don't like dealing with chain jerkers.

[doug.goodman]

$6k