Revisiting 1963 Topps Mantle Potential Color Variant

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

Superstars are the ones that sit in dealer cases/display for years. They are also the people who can do exactly what I can (which takes little knowledge and no talent) will do if they're scammers looking to make money off people who want to believe they have/bought something special that is not.

You can just go make any green 1963 subject a blue in a day or two with the right light. I believe the full process has even been posted here before and numerous examples have been shown in other threads. You want 100 commons like this, just go make them for yourself. You'll see them occasionally, I've owned a couple I threw into my bulk lots of dupes I sell/trade off because they are just damaged cards and not in any way special or errors.

None of the Mantles I posted were advertised as anything other than a 1963 Topps Mickey Mantle in the stated grade.

I would think if you manipulated a card because you wanted to cash in, you would advertise there was something different about it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

None of the Mantles I posted were advertised as anything other than a 1963 Topps Mickey Mantle in the stated grade.

I would think if you manipulated a card because you wanted to cash in, you would advertise there was something different about it.

I didn't say these 3 were or claim to trace the ownership and sales history of these 3. These 3 are likely from display, i.e. a not fraudulent occurrence. An indica of this is the faded overall appearance, and that the blue in the insert photo is a different blue than the faded off green (it would be the same blue if it was printed that way using the blue pass). The fraud ones are usually smart enough to cover the rest of the card so the targeted light to accelerate the natural process doesn't hurt the other colors and only the green or yellow is removed to create an "error". People have been making and selling them for a very long time.

[packs]

First, it was naturally occurring display damage. Now, it can be done by doing XYZ to it.

If it is natural wear and the sun will turn the box blue on any 63 Topps card, I'm just looking for another example. Please post if you have one.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

First, it was naturally occurring display damage. Now, it can be done by doing XYZ to it.

If it is natural wear and the sun will turn the box blue on any 63 Topps card, I'm just looking for another example. Please post if you have one.

This is really not difficult or a contradiction. It's how the green ink responds to light. It will happen naturally if a card gets direct sunlight for long enough. You can also easily accelerate this process to make them in less than 48 hours with the right light setup. How is this difficult to understand?

You are welcome to believe whatever you want, it's America. You have a special snowflake if that makes you happy. If you want I'll pull out my half blue 1977 Topps Star Wars I created as my test subjects on Friday when I get home from a trip. You can find examples online easily, including previous threads here.

[packs]

I understand the sun and what sunlight does but what I question is whether this would be the outcome. I thought it was a good explanation for the one card I had. Then I found two more like it. But I’m having hard time finding other cards with similar wear outside of Mantle. If you have an example please share it.

[mikemb]

Hope this link works from 5 years ago. There is an image of a "Blue" Kaline.


Mike

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ighlight=faded

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

I understand the sun and what sunlight does but what I question is whether this would be the outcome. I thought it was a good explanation for the one card I had. Then I found two more like it. But I’m having hard time finding other cards with similar wear outside of Mantle. If you have an example please share it.

You obviously really don't and that is the problem because those Mantle cards are exactly the outcome.

To make this even simpler if possible. Thake a 1963 Topps card you own with the green bottom. Put it in a card saver and put it outside in the sun. After some time(a few weeks since it is fall) you will have a card with the same exact wear/color whatever you want to call it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I understand the sun and what sunlight does but what I question is whether this would be the outcome. I thought it was a good explanation for the one card I had. Then I found two more like it. But I’m having hard time finding other cards with similar wear outside of Mantle. If you have an example please share it.

Al and Ben have already both posted examples of cards with the same damage, 1 likely from 'natural' light means and 1 from artificial. I can show an example of a 77 I made myself designed to appear 'natural' I have kept in my altered card bin on Friday. You can find more examples online easily if you want too. Look up 58 Aaron's and you will find several. I don't know why you keep pretending there are none and you aren't seeing any. Here's 2 I pulled in 5 seconds - neither left the factory this way.

[packs]

I said I would like to see other 1963 Topps cards with green boxes that are blue instead. That is not what you posted.

The Kaline card is what I'm looking for. That card is interesting because it's supposed to be green but is blue. Unlike Mantle, the Kaline has a yellow background around the inset image of him above the box. The Mantle has blue. Does that mean all cards with green bottoms are entirely blue underneath because it's part of the printing process and color has been stripped, or does the sunlight turn the green into blue?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is really not difficult or a contradiction. It's how the green ink responds to light. It will happen naturally if a card gets direct sunlight for long enough. You can also easily accelerate this process to make them in less than 48 hours with the right light setup. How is this difficult to understand?

You are welcome to believe whatever you want, it's America. You have a special snowflake if that makes you happy. If you want I'll pull out my half blue 1977 Topps Star Wars I created as my test subjects on Friday when I get home from a trip. You can find examples online easily, including previous threads here.

Here is my half faded Ron Jackson. I threw most of the stuff I experimented on away and also like a dumb a$$ never kept notes.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Here is my half faded Ron Jackson. I threw most of the stuff I experimented on away and also like a dumb a$$ never kept notes.

I keep my experimental subjects to low grade cheap commons of cards with huge populations, and most get destroyed. I usually only keep one type for future reference, that goes into a separate container marked as intentionally altered. I usually make a note in pen on the back too. My notes are complete, but that's the only thing I have organized in my card mess.

The desire to believe is vast, a majority of color 'variations' on the market are sadly not genuine but continue to bring money from people who want to believe a whole lot more than they are willing to question things.