Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?

[Fred]

Now that the auction is over, I'll post a picture of a correctly graded card and ask:

Would you buy this, break it out, soak it, send it in for grading, and then sell it?

The card is graded a "1" due to the crud on the back. Watching Kurt's videos, I'm sure the crud could be easily removed.


The card has nice centering and could probably come back graded a 3.5 (or better). The price difference could be up to $1K (from the price for a "1").

Worst case, if it came back AUTH due to someone detected the soaking, you could still probably break even on the card because it has very nice visual appeal.

The final hammer (with BP, but no taxes or shipping added) was $900.

Any guesses if we'll see this card cracked, soaked, resubmitted and back to an AH? Probably better to just sell it without the AH this time around.



JoeD-REA-21JAN24-B.jpg

[campyfan39]

I personally would not but I don't see how it would be any different than buying a house, fixing it up and flipping it.

Originally Posted by Fred

Now that the auction is over, I'll post a picture of a correctly graded card and ask:

Would you buy this, break it out, soak it, send it in for grading, and then sell it?

The card is graded a "1" due to the crud on the back. Watching Kurt's videos, I'm sure the crud could be easily removed.


The card has nice centering and could probably come back graded a 3.5 (or better). The price difference could be up to $1K (from the price for a "1").

Worst case, if it came back AUTH due to someone detected the soaking, you could still probably break even on the card because it has very nice visual appeal.

The final hammer (with BP, but no taxes or shipping added) was $900.

Any guesses if we'll see this card cracked, soaked, resubmitted and back to an AH? Probably better to just sell it without the AH this time around.



Attachment 606580

[Seven]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I personally would not but I don't see how it would be any different than buying a house, fixing it up and flipping it.

You can live in a House, you can't live in a Joe DiMaggio card

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Seven

You can live in a House, you can't live in a Joe DiMaggio card

A house with the value of most Joe DiMaggio cards would need a LOT of work before you could live in it.

[campyfan39]

I guess the incoming argument will be that people know the house has been renovated/remodeled.
I can see that side too.
Sticky (haha) subject

[Fred]

Chris,

I see your point and am not debating anything here (and I realize you're not trying to start a debate).

I was merely wondering what people thought about the question in post #178.

My opinion doesn't matter, but here it is.

I don't see anything wrong with a little "cleaning". For example erasing pencil marks and things like that. I never realize soaking could do as much as it did. I've only soaked one card. It was a T200 team card that was adhered to a page in a book. The card came off the page, but my impatience probably resulted in a few extra creases in the card. Lesson learned, you better be patient if you're going to soak. Do I see soaking as a problem? Still not sure about that one yet and if there are affects on the card material if something other than nice clean water is used

I do not support ANY kind of trimming. I still think TPGs should only give numerical grades to Zeenuts that have the coupon (for, example). Also, TPGs should avoid assigning numerical grades to cards razor sharp corners that don't meet the standard size requirement. I get it, people think there's a lot of variation in card sizes. I say, yes, but why is it that many cards with razor sharp corners are assigned numerical grades. The TPGs should err on the side of caution and rethink the grading philosophy.

Taking out creases? I've seen this going on for 40+ years. I remember the first time someone showed me how to do it. I was a bit surprised and tried it on a few new cards with great success. I don't have it in me to try it on true vintage cards. In many cases I can spot a card with a crease removed and cringe when I see it, especially in a graded holder.

If material (cardboard/ink) is added in anyway, then that's just wrong unless it's disclosed during a sale or through grading, but I can't imagine anybody would just tell the TPG about it because usually they're trying to get it slipped past the TPG. Counter to that, removing ink in an effort to create an error card is just wrong - I couldn't imagine anybody disagreeing with that. It's for that reason I'd never buy a graded T206 "nodgrass" error card.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Fred

Now that the auction is over, I'll post a picture of a correctly graded card and ask:

Would you buy this, break it out, soak it, send it in for grading, and then sell it?

The card is graded a "1" due to the crud on the back. Watching Kurt's videos, I'm sure the crud could be easily removed.


The card has nice centering and could probably come back graded a 3.5 (or better). The price difference could be up to $1K (from the price for a "1").

Worst case, if it came back AUTH due to someone detected the soaking, you could still probably break even on the card because it has very nice visual appeal.

The final hammer (with BP, but no taxes or shipping added) was $900.

Any guesses if we'll see this card cracked, soaked, resubmitted and back to an AH? Probably better to just sell it without the AH this time around.

Yes, the buyer will certainly be attempting to clean this card up. Nearly every time a card like this gets auctioned, the buyer is someone that believes they can fix it. Cards like this sell closer to their potential, as opposed to their current state. They almost never sell for "comps" because people who know how to clean them compete against each other and will always outbid someone who is just bidding on the card with no intentions to improve it.

No, I did not win the card. But I do know who did.

As for whether it will end up back at an auction house in the near future in a higher slab? My guess is no, it won't. The buyer picked it up for their PC.

[GeoPoto]

I recently "upgraded" the SweetCap460-25 in my T206Elberfeld,Washington Fielding back run. I decided that I preferred the 2.5 despite the grime over the 5, which looks altered. So, now I am curious if the Snowman thinks the 2.5 would benefit from soaking?

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1706014626
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1706014631
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1706014637
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1706014641

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

I recently "upgraded" the SweetCap460-25 in my T206Elberfeld,Washington Fielding back run. I decided that I preferred the 2.5 despite the grime over the 5, which looks altered. So, now I am curious if the Snowman thinks the 2.5 would benefit from soaking?]

The 2.5 could be improved, but it likely wouldn't result in a grade bump. Just an eye appeal improvement.

The 5 may have been cleaned at some point. I would say it's more likely than not. Whether it has been trimmed or not is difficult to say from a scan though.

[tjisonline]

The card was graded poor because it has a pinhole. Everything else is irrelevant.

Would make zero sense financially to soak this card with its pinhole.
I assume it be enjoyed as a nice eye appeal card.

Originally Posted by Fred

Now that the auction is over, I'll post a picture of a correctly graded card and ask:

Would you buy this, break it out, soak it, send it in for grading, and then sell it?

The card is graded a "1" due to the crud on the back. Watching Kurt's videos, I'm sure the crud could be easily removed.


The card has nice centering and could probably come back graded a 3.5 (or better). The price difference could be up to $1K (from the price for a "1").

Worst case, if it came back AUTH due to someone detected the soaking, you could still probably break even on the card because it has very nice visual appeal.

The final hammer (with BP, but no taxes or shipping added) was $900.

Any guesses if we'll see this card cracked, soaked, resubmitted and back to an AH? Probably better to just sell it without the AH this time around.



Attachment 606580

[Fred]

Wow, I had to go back to post 178 to refresh.

I didn't see the pin hole in the card, however, my thought was that the card looks pretty nice beyond the paste at the corners.

If it were cleaned, it could be resubmitted and there's the possibility the TPG misses that "very tiny" pin hole. I wouldn't promote the resubmission in the attempt to get it by the TPG, but I'm sure others might see the potential benefit.

I suppose the next question would bring up debate. If it were soaked and result in no damage to the card, then an assumption is that card would look awesome (front is centered fairly well). Would anybody soak it just to have a nicer looking card (assuming no damage to the card occurs).

For arguements sake (or to alleviate most reasons for a debate), lets say the card was soaked only in water.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Fred

Wow, I had to go back to post 178 to refresh.

I didn't see the pin hole in the card, however, my thought was that the card looks pretty nice beyond the paste at the corners.

If it were cleaned, it could be resubmitted and there's the possibility the TPG misses that "very tiny" pin hole. I wouldn't promote the resubmission in the attempt to get it by the TPG, but I'm sure others might see the potential benefit.

I suppose the next question would bring up debate. If it were soaked and result in no damage to the card, then an assumption is that card would look awesome (front is centered fairly well). Would anybody soak it just to have a nicer looking card (assuming no damage to the card occurs).

For arguements sake (or to alleviate most reasons for a debate), lets say the card was soaked only in water.

Yes, I would absolutely soak a card just to clean it up even though I know it would receive the same technical grade if resubmitted. I've done it countless times.

[tjisonline]

Hello,

For this post, please remember that when I refer to cleaning or soaking it is with 100% distilled water only.

1) I agree. The pinhole is there yet subtle enough where it doesn’t take away from the card. It does go through the back, unfortunately. It’s like looking through a peak / peep hole. Ever watched the 1982 movie, Porky’s? ��.

2a & b) I don’t think anyone with common sense will resubmit this card to a grader w/ a hole in it. It makes zero sense.

Even if you clean the card, it’s still gonna have the hole. It’s not like soaking the card is gonna make the cardboard grow to fill the hole. Additionally, it could be greater as authentic instead of a1 / poor.

Soaking does not always clean a card. it was primarily used 5+ decades ago to remove cards that were taped or glued in scrapbooks. Additionally, some cards cannot be soaked and could be destroyed.

Originally Posted by Fred

Wow, I had to go back to post 178 to refresh.

1) I didn't see the pin hole in the card, however, my thought was that the card looks pretty nice beyond the paste at the corners.

2a) If it were cleaned, it could be resubmitted and there's the possibility the TPG misses that "very tiny" pin hole. I wouldn't promote the resubmission in the attempt to get it by the TPG, but I'm sure others might see the potential benefit.

2b) I suppose the next question would bring up debate. If it were soaked and result in no damage to the card, then an assumption is that card would look awesome (front is centered fairly well). Would anybody soak it just to have a nicer looking card (assuming no damage to the card occurs).

3) For arguements sake (or to alleviate most reasons for a debate), lets say the card was soaked only in water.

[etsmith]

I don't see a problem with using distilled water, but using anything else is probably not a good idea in the long term.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

… Even if you clean the card, it’s still gonna have the hole. It’s not like soaking the card is gonna make the cardboard grow to fill the hole. …

Vintage Card Restoration: Dealing with pinholes on vintage sports cards
https://youtu.be/mxTWkdLyfws?si=v8o3-ONtWRk278Jb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[campyfan39]

incredible. would have not ever imagined

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Vintage Card Restoration: Dealing with pinholes on vintage sports cards
https://youtu.be/mxTWkdLyfws?si=v8o3-ONtWRk278Jb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

incredible. would have not ever imagined

Please note I didn’t post that video as something positive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Fred]

I wonder what would happen if the card was soaked rather than going through the process completed to lessen the size of the pin hole. I wonder if a grader would actually see the hole or if the quick glance would result in a determination it was just an ink imperfection.

You have to admit that for the effort put forth, the results of the "pinhole relief" are impressive. No extra material added. Not sure what's in the solution used, but I'm guessing it probably doesn't have much in the way of chemicals else there'd be possible ink discoloration issues.

I probably wouldn't purchase any cards from Kurt because in the back of your mind you'd be wondering, what is it that I'm missing. In no way am I implying he'd try and pass something off without disclosure. I'm guessing he'd be more than happy to disclose all work done to one of his cardboard patients.

Because I'm posting the before/after pics doesn't imply I'm a fan of card repair (especially trimming). It's an interesting topic and deserves discussion.


K-C_Pinhole repair.jpg

[Leon]

That's a significant decrease in the size of that pinhole.

Originally Posted by Fred

I wonder what would happen if the card was soaked rather than going through the process completed to lessen the size of the pin hole. I wonder if a grader would actually see the hole or if the quick glance would result in a determination it was just an ink imperfection.

You have to admit that for the effort put forth, the results of the "pinhole relief" are impressive. No extra material added. Not sure what's in the solution used, but I'm guessing it probably doesn't have much in the way of chemicals else there'd be possible ink discoloration issues.

I probably wouldn't purchase any cards from Kurt because in the back of your mind you'd be wondering, what is it that I'm missing. In no way am I implying he'd try and pass something off without disclosure. I'm guessing he'd be more than happy to disclose all work done to one of his cardboard patients.

Because I'm posting the before/after pics doesn't imply I'm a fan of card repair (especially trimming). It's an interesting topic and deserves discussion.


Attachment 608589