Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?

[gunboat82]

We're not going to see eye to eye here, so I'll just respond to your direct points and move on.

Originally Posted by Snowman

There's nothing to conceal though lol. This is 100% allowed. How do you not get this?

I see a difference between what's "allowed" and what's simply accepted with a shrug because it's too difficult to police and business is good.

Frankly, I'm not that fussy about cards for my personal collection. You can soak them, spray them, glue them, tape them, roll them, dip them, or touch them up with crayon. But I respect that other collectors might not feel that way. If I know something's been done to one of my cards that might make a prospective buyer/trader uneasy, I'll disclose it.

Originally Posted by Snowman

Do you also call people a fraudster for not revealing the fact that they washed their car prior to selling it to you? They didn't tell you because it is widely understood and accepted that cleaning cars is OK.

No, and I directly addressed this earlier. This is a bad analogy because there's no real market for unwashed used cars. There is a large market for unwashed cards that haven't been touched up with mystery spray, even if you think those people are dumb.

Originally Posted by Snowman

If some paranoid schizophrenic decides that they don't want cars to be washed and that anyone doing so without concealing that fact was somehow a fraudster, the world doesn't have to cater to his delusional demands. They just roll their eyes, laugh at him and move along to someone living in the real world.

In a far-fetched scenario where you know I'm in the market for a dirty car and you sell me a washed one anyway without disclosing it... yes, I'm comfortable calling you a fraudster.

All that said, I'm an imperfect being. I probably wouldn't lose sleep at night if I trimmed a card to 50/50 perfection, fuzzied the corners a bit to bring it to that PSA 4-5 sweet spot, snuck it through their alteration detectors, and sold it to you at 500% comps. You'd be happy as a clam and I'd have money in my pocket.

It's not actually fraud if we all look the other way, right? Trees falling in the forest and such.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

No, and I directly addressed this earlier. This is a bad analogy because there's no real market for unwashed used cars. There is a large market for unwashed cards that haven't been touched up with mystery spray, even if you think those people are dumb.

The market clearly values cleaned cards more than it values dirty ones. The used car market is no different. Clean used cars sell for more than dirty ones. The only reason you see fewer dirty cars for sale is because everyone knows how to clean a car, but not everyone knows how to clean their cards. As more and more people learn how to do it, it'll become less and less taboo. People are simply afraid of what they don't understand. They think soaking a card should damage it somehow. But they're wrong.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The market clearly values cleaned cards more than it values dirty ones. The used car market is no different. Clean used cars sell for more than dirty ones. The only reason you see fewer dirty cars for sale is because everyone knows how to clean a car, but not everyone knows how to clean their cards. As more and more people learn how to do it, it'll become less and less taboo. People are simply afraid of what they don't understand. They think soaking a card should damage it somehow. But they're wrong.

And if they're slabbed, the market values trimmed cards whose grade has been improved by trimming more than the prior untrimmed versions. And therefore what?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And if they're slabbed, the market values trimmed cards whose grade has been improved by trimming more than the prior untrimmed versions. And therefore what?

Trimmed cards are a whole other ball of wax. Unlike with cleaned cards, there is often a very real risk involved if you buy a trimmed card in a slab (depending on if it's detectable or not). If you damage that slab and can't get it to pass grading again, you could be out a substantial amount of money. This is also why I avoid early PSA cert numbers, as those cards generally carry a similar risk due to them almost all being significantly over graded by today's standards. If you damage the slab of a PSA 7 T206 Cy Young with cert # 0635xxxx, it's apart guaranteed to regrade as a 5 today. This risk is not present with cleaned cards though. You can send those off for grading and they'll pass every time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Trimmed cards are a whole other ball of wax. Unlike with cleaned cards, there is often a very real risk involved if you buy a trimmed card in a slab (depending on if it's detectable or not). If you damage that slab and can't get it to pass grading again, you could be out a substantial amount of money. This is also why I avoid early PSA cert numbers, as those cards generally carry a similar risk due to them almost all being significantly over graded by today's standards. If you damage the slab of a PSA 7 T206 Cy Young with cert # 0635xxxx, it's apart guaranteed to regrade as a 5 today. This risk is not present with cleaned cards though. You can send those off for grading and they'll pass every time.

Why would a slab get damaged? That doesn't seem like a major risk, unless I suppose if you're lugging them to shows all the time.