1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Look at the rat bite on this Geo Burns. How or why would a forger institute that? Each card appears to have it's own natural wear.

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

It started off fake. I came by the dealer in 1999.. 2004 another party offered the first in lots in eBay. Forget about it for years and, well.....

[G1911]

One person refusing to deal with reason is not going to affect auction prices.

Question everything should always be the motto. But I'm not seeing a shred of any reason or evidence that supports this conclusion being insisted on, while there is significant reasoning that it is real. I'd love to hear an argument that the hobby has screwed up again and they are not real, but that would require some reason and evidence.

A dealer told me this below card was real, and he seemed like an honest fellow, though I can't even recall his name. Therefore, the card is real and no amount of evidence or reason can change my insistence that my reasonless opinion is actual reality. It is real.

Surely we see how ridiculous and absurd this train of thought, for it cannot be called logic, is.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by G1911

One person refusing to deal with reason is not going to affect auction prices.

Question everything should always be the motto. But I'm not seeing a shred of any reason or evidence that supports this conclusion being insisted on, while there is significant reasoning that it is real. I'd love to hear an argument that the hobby has screwed up again and they are not real, but that would require some reason and evidence.

A dealer told me this below card was real, and he seemed like an honest fellow, though I can't even recall his name. Therefore, the card is real and no amount of evidence or reason can change my insistence that my reasonless opinion is actual reality. It is real.

Surely we see how ridiculous and absurd this train of thought, for it cannot be called logic, is.

LOL!

Thank you

Happy Thanksgiving

[rhettyeakley]

Brian and I have been arguing about this set for years.

They are real.

Brian is wrong but he doesn’t want to believe it.

That is the end of it.

He has never provided any evidence to the contrary other than his flimsy bit of anecdotal stuff like he did here. He has also never handled the cards or indicated that he has and has an opinion himself, just that an unnamed dealer told him they were fake.

I have nothing against Brian and consider him a friend.

But…he is wrong.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Brian and I have been arguing about this set for years.

They are real.

Brian is wrong but he doesn’t want to believe it.

That is the end of it.

He has never provided any evidence to the contrary other than his flimsy bit of anecdotal stuff like he did here. He has also never handled the cards or indicated that he has and has an opinion himself, just that an unnamed dealer told him they were fake.

I have nothing against Brian and consider him a friend.

But…he is wrong.

Rhett is a friend, but friends disagree.

[Steve D]

For those who worry about the lack of an address for Herpolsheimer's on the cards, here are two postcards currently on ebay:

The store was in the heart of Grand Rapids, right next to the Kent County civil war monument that was erected in 1885.

Also, as was pointed out earlier, their advertisements did not include their address. I even looked up the Grand Rapids city directory for 1922 on ancestry.com. It has a Herpolsheimers advertisement on page 63, and it does not have their address on it.




Steve

[glynparson]

This is the dumbest thread I think I have ever read. They are fake because some guy told me they were. He offered no proof but he said they were so he’s right because he said it like 25 years ago. Screw the opinions of several incredibly knowledgeable pre war card experts who have owned examples and handled them raw. I’m going to believe some dude who’s name I can’t even remember. What a truly asinine position to take. I mean seriously there are plenty of things I disagree with Leon and Jeff about but this sure as hell is not one of them. You have offered zero credible evidence that these are fake absolutely none. Just constantly repeating the same vague bs isn’t proof.

[scooter729]

With so many views on this, I may as well chime in that I'm always in the market for 1916 Herpolsheimers. Real ones preferred, but my group of fakes looked real enough to fool PSA, so will consider good fakes. Back printing on your fakes should be inconsistent as well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

If it is bleed through or a wet sheet transfer I doubt it would be added. More a regular problem in printing.

The real question is how would it be done. It is not like almost every town in the US has a building with a lot of paper from that era. Also how would you find old ink? I doubt eBay would have anything like that. Then do the counterfeiters go with readily available easily made commercial rubber stamps? Maybe not but how many really have access to a HAAS CNC machine to easily make the stone "printing plates". Then what, watch a few youtube videos on how easy stone lithography is. That just sounds really far-fetched to me.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If it is bleed through or a wet sheet transfer I doubt it would be added. More a regular problem in printing.

The real question is how would it be done. It is not like almost every town in the US has a building with a lot of paper from that era. Also how would you find old ink? I doubt eBay would have anything like that. Then do the counterfeiters go with readily available easily made commercial rubber stamps? Maybe not but how many really have access to a HAAS CNC machine to easily make the stone "printing plates". Then what, watch a few youtube videos on how easy stone lithography is. That just sounds really far-fetched to me.

If you have a guy who operates as a printer and enjoys collecting cards, he would have access to everything you've stated. Now, a five plus year gap between my encounter and the eBay auctions in 2004 followed by the news of a second grouping in 2019. Uh......hmmm.....nice cycle.