1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Whether I agree with Brian or not is unimportant. However, I do admire him for sticking up for what he believes despite the opinion being unpopular. Thanks for giving your view on these cards!

I wonder if you would feel the same if it was your card being auctioned and bidders were turned away by someone who doesn't just repeat a story that happened to him--which could easily be discounted--but instead repeatedly and conclusively calls your card fake. Since he admitted his intent was to discourage bidding and/or that he knew his remarks would have the effect, I wonder how you would react. As someone alluded earlier, this country has enough people who go about their lives firmly and fervently believing things that are demonstrably false and who are not only unable/unwilling to admit they may be wrong but who propagates their views by doubling down. You can admire that Jay, but personally I don't find it to be a good look, to put it mildly.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I wonder if you would feel the same if it was your card being auctioned and bidders were turned away by someone who doesn't just repeat a story that happened to him--which could easily be discounted--but instead repeatedly and conclusively calls your card fake. Sine he admitted his intent was to discourage bidding and/or that he knew his remarks would have the effect, I wonder how you would react. As someone alluded earlier, this country has enough people who go about their lives firmly and fervently believing things that are demonstrably false and who are not only unable/unwilling to admit they may be wrong but who promulgate their views by doubling down. You can admire that Jay, but personally I don't find it to be a good look, to put it mildly.

Oh, so watching out for others is not a good idea. Put it off as a resolution until next year?

[RCMcKenzie]

Look at the rat bite on this Geo Burns. How or why would a forger institute that? Each card appears to have it's own natural wear.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Look at the rat bite on this Geo Burns. How or why would a forger institute that? Each card appears to have it's own natural wear.

Bob,

If you want to view the card as authentic, it is your choice.

Happy Thanksgiving

[RCMcKenzie]

Brian, I just think it's an interesting topic. I think it would actually be a big deal if others were to agree with you. I've bought from you, and know you are knowledgeable on these types of cards.

I have e121's and the like and these don't look off to me. I don't think it's the case, but it sounds like you may have more information that you don't want to reveal, which is fine. I question stuff all the time, but I say, "I do not believe those are period." in case I am mistaken.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Brian, I just think it's an interesting topic. I think it would actually be a big deal if others were to agree with you. I've bought from you, and know you are knowledgeable on these types of cards.

I have e121's and the like and these don't look off to me. I don't think it's the case, but it sounds like you may have more information that you don't want to reveal, which is fine. I question stuff all the time, but I say, "I do not believe those are period." in case I am mistaken.

The information is revealed in full. The cards are fake. Just remember one thing in addition to what I have stated and this is not "revealing" by me, but revealing of fraud. To pass a fraud off on people not all of the examples are in the same condition. Think of how many frauds come to mind beyond card collecting with that statement.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Look at the rat bite on this Geo Burns. How or why would a forger institute that? Each card appears to have it's own natural wear.

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

It started off fake. I came by the dealer in 1999.. 2004 another party offered the first in lots in eBay. Forget about it for years and, well.....

[G1911]

One person refusing to deal with reason is not going to affect auction prices.

Question everything should always be the motto. But I'm not seeing a shred of any reason or evidence that supports this conclusion being insisted on, while there is significant reasoning that it is real. I'd love to hear an argument that the hobby has screwed up again and they are not real, but that would require some reason and evidence.

A dealer told me this below card was real, and he seemed like an honest fellow, though I can't even recall his name. Therefore, the card is real and no amount of evidence or reason can change my insistence that my reasonless opinion is actual reality. It is real.

Surely we see how ridiculous and absurd this train of thought, for it cannot be called logic, is.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by G1911

One person refusing to deal with reason is not going to affect auction prices.

Question everything should always be the motto. But I'm not seeing a shred of any reason or evidence that supports this conclusion being insisted on, while there is significant reasoning that it is real. I'd love to hear an argument that the hobby has screwed up again and they are not real, but that would require some reason and evidence.

A dealer told me this below card was real, and he seemed like an honest fellow, though I can't even recall his name. Therefore, the card is real and no amount of evidence or reason can change my insistence that my reasonless opinion is actual reality. It is real.

Surely we see how ridiculous and absurd this train of thought, for it cannot be called logic, is.

LOL!

Thank you

Happy Thanksgiving

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I too find it a pretty random issue to fake, it would have to be a pretty elaborate well thought out deception, how easy would it be to fake bleed through like that?

If it is bleed through or a wet sheet transfer I doubt it would be added. More a regular problem in printing.

The real question is how would it be done. It is not like almost every town in the US has a building with a lot of paper from that era. Also how would you find old ink? I doubt eBay would have anything like that. Then do the counterfeiters go with readily available easily made commercial rubber stamps? Maybe not but how many really have access to a HAAS CNC machine to easily make the stone "printing plates". Then what, watch a few youtube videos on how easy stone lithography is. That just sounds really far-fetched to me.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If it is bleed through or a wet sheet transfer I doubt it would be added. More a regular problem in printing.

The real question is how would it be done. It is not like almost every town in the US has a building with a lot of paper from that era. Also how would you find old ink? I doubt eBay would have anything like that. Then do the counterfeiters go with readily available easily made commercial rubber stamps? Maybe not but how many really have access to a HAAS CNC machine to easily make the stone "printing plates". Then what, watch a few youtube videos on how easy stone lithography is. That just sounds really far-fetched to me.

If you have a guy who operates as a printer and enjoys collecting cards, he would have access to everything you've stated. Now, a five plus year gap between my encounter and the eBay auctions in 2004 followed by the news of a second grouping in 2019. Uh......hmmm.....nice cycle.