Need help on this Mantle please...

[vthobby]

A friend owns this and I an on the fence on it.

It's a bit controversial to boot either way.

Good? Bad? Thanks in advance!

Mike

IMG_2156 2.jpg

IMG_2156.jpg

[shelly]

Tell your friend that he has a 16x20 that will sell for around 3000 or more

Just a little bit of history. Mantle hated Joe D. One of the things he despised him for was, his rule that he would not go to an old timers game without being announced as the greatest living ball player. Of course the catch in center field that cost him to be injured throughout his career.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by shelly

Tell your friend that he has a 16x20 that will sell for around 3000 or more

Just a little bit of history. Mantle hated Joe D. One of the things he despised him for was, his rule that he would not go to an old timers game without being announced as the greatest living ball player. Of course the catch in center field that cost him to be injured throughout his career.

+1 on authenticity. Not sure about $3K value but in today's world with that inscription I would not be surprised at any price it got in a major auction. Maybe much more than $3K in the right setting.

[vthobby]

Thank you both!

[Lucas00]

I remember reading a not so flattering story about Joe, might’ve even been from a forum member?

One day in a restaurant Joe frequented (Forget the name) he was approached by a young fan for an autograph. Joe said something to the tune of leave me alone can’t you see I’m eating?

The restaurant owner, A good friend of Joe. Who mind you let Joe eat for free Anytime he came in, (it was almost daily I believe). And we’re not talking McDonald’s. Joe was getting nice steak dinners on the house and was at this point, very wealthy. Anyways, the owner saw this happen and was absolutely furious at Joe. I don’t remember exactly what happened after but I don’t think Joe was eating on the house there ever again.

Story is a bit spotty but the just is there.

Another fun fact about Joe, my father got his autograph at a minor league game (sometime in the 80s) when he was the spokesman for Mr. Coffee. He was doing some kind of promo at the game. My dad only had a crappy glove to get signed by Joe so he did, and let me say cheap ballpoint pens and old gloves do not mix at all. It is almost completely faded unfortunately.
Interestingly he told me there wasn’t a soul around Joe and he walked right up to where he was sitting and Joe had no problem signing it.

Can you imagine Mike Trout showing up at a random Minor league game and basically sitting by himself in a corner promoting a random product and nobody caring? Unreal.

[jingram058]

I do not think Mantle despised DiMaggio or vice versa.

I have a baseball personally signed by DiMaggio with the added inscription "Yankee Clipper". This was obtained from him at his children's hospital, in person, for free. GRATIS. Before we dump on Joe, ask yourself, how many sign for free today? Not very many, yes?

[A2000]

This Mantle is 100% a forgery and it's not even really close.

[rand1com]

Sorry but you are dead wrong. It is as authentic as they come. It will pass PSA/DNA, JSA, or Beckett with no problems.

[A2000]

No reputable TPA would pass this. PSA/DNA has a quick opinion service and Beckett has a signature review service that I believe is $10@ for an online review. The OP should get their opinion on this.

This is a very low level forgery that the aforementioned companies would fail every single time.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by A2000

No reputable TPA would pass this. PSA/DNA has a quick opinion service and Beckett has a signature review service that I believe is $10@ for an online review. The OP should get their opinion on this.

This is a very low level forgery that the aforementioned companies would fail every single time.

We can agree to disagree. I'll leave it at that.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I do not think Mantle despised DiMaggio or vice versa.

I have a baseball personally signed by DiMaggio with the added inscription "Yankee Clipper". This was obtained from him at his children's hospital, in person, for free. GRATIS. Before we dump on Joe, ask yourself, how many sign for free today? Not very many, yes?

It is a fact that they did not like each other. Sometimes they were forced through contracts to sign the same item at shows but neither liked doing it. The dual signed items are rare and sell for a nice premium. A dual signed ball will easily go for $2K or likely more.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by A2000

This Mantle is 100% a forgery and it's not even really close.

Ummmmm.....if Shelley said it's 'good'....it is good.

[gonefishin]

Regardless of what the inscription reads, I agree with the authenticity. PSA would not only authenticate the auto, but would authenticate the handwriting. Check out the M - it appears several times and appears to be very consistent with later years writing and autograph. However, I could be wrong.

FYI, I just had a DiMaggio authenticated by PSA. I included snaps of the event where he signed it, or they may not have authenticated it. The cost for DiMaggio authentication is now at $75 - wow. Attached is a photo.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by rand1com

It is a fact that they did not like each other. Sometimes they were forced through contracts to sign the same item at shows but neither liked doing it. The dual signed items are rare and sell for a nice premium. A dual signed ball will easily go for $2K or likely more.

Joe would not sign the ball if Mantle was on it.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by A2000

This Mantle is 100% a forgery and it's not even really close.

I am willing to bet 500 dollars how about you

Please go to this site and tell me this is also a forgery https://www.ebay.com/itm/175177638779

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by shelly

Joe would not sign the ball if Mantle was on it.

Well, one of them would sign with the other on it because I have seen dual signed baseballs. Maybe Joe signed first and then Mickey signed but there are balls out there signed by both.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Well, one of them would sign with the other on it because I have seen dual signed baseballs. Maybe Joe signed first and then Mickey signed but there are balls out there signed by both.

I agree there are good balls with both signitures but Joe would be on it first.

[sicollector1954]

Had this happen right before my eyes in Chicago at a Joe D. signing. Guy had a ball signed by Mantle and Ted Williams. When he got to the table....Dimaggio looked at it and handed it back and then said....I don't sign anything that Mantle signed ahead of me....so the guy had to get out of line...go buy a ball and then later got that signed as a single.

[sicollector1954]

Had this happen right before my eyes in Chicago at a Joe D. signing. Guy had a ball signed by Mantle and Ted Williams. When he got to the table....Dimaggio looked at it and handed it back and then said....I don't sign anything that Mantle signed ahead of me....so the guy had to get out of line...go buy a ball and then later got that signed as a single.

[A2000]

Originally Posted by shelly

I am willing to bet 500 dollars how about you

Please go to this site and tell me this is also a forgery https://www.ebay.com/itm/175177638779

Shelly, I would be happy to take you up on that $500 bet, but I wouldn't accept the money, and would instead have it donated to a good cause.

The link you sent for that ebay listing is of course a copy of a forgery as well.

These are easy to spot forgeries. Please contact someone who is an expert on Mantle autographs. Reach out to someone in JSA, Beckett or PSA/DNA and let's settle this.

[jad22]

Where is Chuck on this?

[Fuddjcal]

my 1st impression is that it was good as well.

You know I'm a sucker for the ink drop on the M and perfect placement,

It is one inscription I can't ever remember seeing. Interesting it shows up on the other print in silver that Shelly posted, where he ALSO "drops" the ink on the M, among other good points.

[rand1com]

Or Christopher Williams?

Or Richard Simon?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by A2000

Shelly, I would be happy to take you up on that $500 bet, but I wouldn't accept the money, and would instead have it donated to a good cause.

The link you sent for that ebay listing is of course a copy of a forgery as well.

These are easy to spot forgeries. Please contact someone who is an expert on Mantle autographs. Reach out to someone in JSA, Beckett or PSA/DNA and let's settle this.

This would be a good idea for the OP. Also would be interested in Chris or Richard's impression/opinion or whether they've seen the piece before? I would think that's more reliable then PSA or JSA. PSA quick opinion is only 10 bucks.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by A2000

Shelly, I would be happy to take you up on that $500 bet, but I wouldn't accept the money, and would instead have it donated to a good cause.

The link you sent for that ebay listing is of course a copy of a forgery as well.

These are easy to spot forgeries. Please contact someone who is an expert on Mantle autographs. Reach out to someone in JSA, Beckett or PSA/DNA and let's settle this.

Why would I trust them. I would put myself as a Mantle expert. I have seen these so called experts authentacte thing that I just laughed at. I have saved many people on this site a lot of money along with Chris, Richard, Chuck and Deluth. I have been wrong before but on this one I would really be surprised if I was.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by A2000

This Mantle is 100% a forgery and it's not even really close.

Can you show me another item like this. You must know of a few to be so sure.
Is the Mantle signiture a fogery on tha piece as well.

[Duluth Eskimo]

This autograph is as solid as it gets.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by shelly

Why would I trust them. I would put myself as a Mantle expert. I have seen these so called experts authentacte thing that I just laughed at. I have saved many people on this site a lot of money along with Chris, Richard, Chuck and Deluth. I have been wrong before but on this one I would really be surprised if I was.

well how about we send the money to what ever town we live. To the local dog shelter

[A2000]

Originally Posted by shelly

well how about we send the money to what ever town we live. To the local dog shelter

100% fine by me.

[rand1com]

So who is the arbiter as to authenticity since neither of the combatants have the item in hand to submit for authentication to any 3rd party? The online opinions are not trustworthy as you have no idea who looks at the scans/pictures of the autograph.

[A2000]

If you guys don’t trust the TPAs to look at Mickey mantle, I seriously don’t know what to tell you.

I’m sure Chris Williams will be able to let you guys know this is a forgery but I haven’t seen him on here in awhile.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by A2000

If you guys don’t trust the TPAs to look at Mickey mantle, I seriously don’t know what to tell you.

I’m sure Chris Williams will be able to let you guys know this is a forgery but I haven’t seen him on here in awhile.

The third parties are fine as long as they have the actual item in hand and not a picture of one because someone has to actually sign the LOA or rejection letter.

The online opinions may be looked at by anybody that works for the company and there is ZERO accountability because NO ONE signs anything. They do not tell you who reviewed the item. They don't even guarantee that they will stand behind their own online opinion.

So if Christopher Williams opines that it is indeed authentic, does that end it?

[shelly]

I have sent the picture to Ken Golden and Scott Stimmel two outstanding autograph people. Let's see what they say. If nothing, then i will go with Chris
By the way there are five yeas to one ney. I should win on that alone.

I asked you before. please show me another example I have shown two.

[eastonfalcon19]

There's people on this board including Shelly who I would trust over any 3rd party's opinion. Also FWIW, Shelly has been on point with every autograph I've asked help with over the years. So A2000, as my dad used to say to my mom when he came home from an auction "GET THE CHECKBOOK OUT".

[A2000]

Shelly, you're asking me to show you examples of this FORGERY? Why would I keep examples of such an obvious forgery?

PSA/DNA quick opinion and Beckett Signature Review are done by their respective authenticators, but that's not enough? On something as easy and common as Mickey Mantle? The TPAs have done thousands upon thousands of Mantles, and even the biggest TPA haters would acknowledge their accuracy on him is very reliable.

[HOFAUTOS]

This is bad and there are other Mantle inscribed versions using this same forgery style. You’ll also find it on bats. Some originated from American Memorabilia in their early days and had 100% Authentic coas. No authenticator will pass this. It’s a quick fail just like other common Mantle forgery styles.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by A2000

If you guys don’t trust the TPAs to look at Mickey mantle, I seriously don’t know what to tell you.

I’m sure Chris Williams will be able to let you guys know this is a forgery but I haven’t seen him on here in awhile.

Chris and I communicated not long ago. He's not in the hobby like he used to be. Also, please put your full name out here per the rules AND please pm me. thanks
.

[A2000]

Originally Posted by Leon

Chris and I communicated not long ago. He's not in the hobby like he used to be. Also, please put your full name out here per the rules AND please pm me. thanks
.

Pm sent

[shelly]

I dont want to argue about this. If someone can proof it is bad I will pay. Untill then I stand by what i said. I trust Deluth and Chuck more than the tpa's. I only do Mantle's and Williams. I have made mistakes but over the last twenty years I have been very consistant along with Chuck, Deluth,Chris and a few others. We have saved people a great deal of money at no cost.
Like i said you have to prove me wrong not the other way.

Your statement:
Shelly, you're asking me to show you examples of this FORGERY? Why would I keep examples of such an obvious forgery?

This is a perfect reason why you should keep and example

[shelly]

Originally Posted by HOFAUTOS

This is bad and there are other Mantle inscribed versions using this same forgery style. You’ll also find it on bats. Some originated from American Memorabilia in their early days and had 100% Authentic coas. No authenticator will pass this. It’s a quick fail just like other common Mantle forgery styles.

Forget all the writeing on the piece. Are you saying the signiture is a easy forgery?

[shelly]

joe d su.jpg



Compare the sucks to this photo and the other. I am trying to prove what I am saying. Unlike you who is just saying with no proof.

This photo is from History for Sale

[A2000]

Shelly, I'm not going to post anymore on this. As you can see from my post count, I normally do not post, because I realize how pointless it is to get into a back and forth debate on a message board.

I've said it will fail third party authentication by JSA, PSA/DNA, Beckett in a heartbeat. Anyone who buys/sells/deals in Mantle will recognize this to be an instant fail. I've suggested a simple $10 Quick Opinion by psa or Beckett would settle this quickly.

As far as the autograph itself, take a look at how exaggerated the motions are within the signature. Take a look at the content. Do you really think Mickey Mantle, when he was alive would just add these type of silly inscriptions attacking Joe Dimaggio over and over? And these attacks only appear with this type of handwriting? And of course, these never come with any reputable TPA certification?

I've given Leon my contact information so he knows I'm not some message board troll.

[shelly]

I appreciate what you are saying. I have my thoughts on this as you have yours. Let it end there.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by A2000

. Do you really think Mickey Mantle, when he was alive would just add these type of silly inscriptions attacking Joe Dimaggio over and over? And these attacks only appear with this type of handwriting?

The answer to that part of your statement is 100% yes. I do 100% believe he would write anything you wanted if you paid him to do so. I have seen Mantle write all sorts of things, both appropriate and not, over and over again. The man had no filter often times.
If you want an example of how inappropriate he could be, just look at the questionnaire from the 1973 Old timers/Yankee Stadium celebration he filled out. It was Sold Last year for $242K in Lelands auction.

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=112036

Certainly, If her could write that to the Yankees, even as a joke, he could write things about Joe D, especially if he was being paid.

[jad22]

http://billyjensen.com/wp-content/th...foul_balls.pdf

[Mr. Zipper]

Interesting debate. I have a lot of respect for some of the folks supporting this piece, but it is undoubtedly bad in my opinion. It is consistent with the style of a known -- a relatively skilled -- Long Island forger.

* Overall it has a squat, tight, "blocky" look.
* The Ms are the same height as the "ickey" and "antle" ... they should be notably higher.

I've attached a photo of an item from the forger I suspect penned the item in question. I can state for a fact that the item in question would not pass at least one of the big three TPAs.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by shelly

Attachment 577852



Compare the sucks to this photo and the other. I am trying to prove what I am saying. Unlike you who is just saying with no proof.

This photo is from History for Sale

We all know who penned this one and it wasn't Mickey Mantle!

[Terrier8HOF]

I agree with Mr. Zipper on this, I also believe it is a forgery.

[Fuddjcal]

Thanks Zip,

Yeah, I'm not liking this one and it has some of the characteristics I usually like, though contrived. I certainly respect your opinion and you've forgot more about the autograph industry than I know. A cut above "forgery" to be sure from the cartoonish ones. The Long Island Forger...be on the look out,

[bigfanNY]

In the end a Dog shelter that I am sure can use the Money benifits. Post the shelter info please. I will make a small donation just for the Mantle Education, and because I love Dogs. My life has been much enhanced by having Dogs in it.