The hobby is surely passing me by

[Tabe]

Am a little surprised Goldin sold this. Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacy. Would they sell Wagner in a KKK hood? I mean, they can sell whatever they want, I'm just surprised.

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Am a little surprised Goldin sold this. Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacy. Would they sell Wagner in a KKK hood? I mean, they can sell whatever they want, I'm just surprised.

I had the same reaction.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Am a little surprised Goldin sold this. Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacy. Would they sell Wagner in a KKK hood? I mean, they can sell whatever they want, I'm just surprised.

That is a bunch of bullshit. People can put anything on a meme and have it mean something different. Of course anybody putting a Hitler mustache on him, or swastika etc.....then yes, that is racist. A pure Pepe is not racist. He is a frog. I love frogs. Leave him alone. Putting Pepe on a Wags isn't racist.
.

[h2oya311]

watch this to "get learned" on Pepe:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pepe...esters-2019-10

[Leon]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

watch this to "get learned" on Pepe:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pepe...esters-2019-10

I watched it before you posted it. I am all "learned" up. I still think the NFT Wags and Pepe is not racist. Everything is effing racist nowadays. I am absolutely disgusted with our society today and I fear for future generations living off the govt. It used to be a black mark to take welfare from our govt. Now it's a badge of honor not to work ....so it seems. People today make everything racist and it's not true.
Just my opinion. Everyone has one.

.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I watched it before you posted it. I am all "learned" up. I still think the NFT Wags and Pepe is not racist. Everything is effing racist nowadays. I am absolutely disgusted with our society today and I fear for future generations living off the govt. It used to be a black mark to take welfare from our govt. Now it's a badge of honor not to work ....so it seems. People today make everything racist and it's not true.
Just my opinion. Everyone has one.

.

+1

[Tao_Moko]

What does it mean if I hate Pepe Wagner?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

What does it mean if I hate Pepe Wagner?

Stop being so speciesist and get woke! The amphibian barrier is coming down in baseball soon. Don't be left behind.

[Yoda]

To me, this is another not-so-subtle representation that the hobby we all love is being transformed into something far different than when we first starting buying cards. I first starting collecting back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the only way to get a desired card was to trade, one set of greasy fingers to the next. No TPG, no auctions, little money, no equity shares, no trimming or alterations and certainly no non-fungible cards.
And I totally agree with Leon that putting a Hitler meme on Honus aimed at the Neo-Nazis and other hate groups is pure racism. Using Kermit is just silly.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Leon

I watched it before you posted it. I am all "learned" up. I still think the NFT Wags and Pepe is not racist. Everything is effing racist nowadays. I am absolutely disgusted with our society today and I fear for future generations living off the govt. It used to be a black mark to take welfare from our govt. Now it's a badge of honor not to work ....so it seems. People today make everything racist and it's not true.
Just my opinion. Everyone has one.

.

Then you didn't watch the whole video. It shows how "Pepe" evolved into something that conjured "racist alt-right" thoughts for most Americans but was used as a symbol of rebellion against dictatorship for those people living in Hong Kong. Why do you think the Pepe Wagner NFT sold for so much? It's not because of Pepe the cartoon. It's because of the ideology of his image. Period.

If the NFT were of Garfield or Snoopy superimposed on a T206 Wagner, it would not have garnered much attention. And we certainly wouldn't be discussing it on a chat board.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Then you didn't watch the whole video. It shows how "Pepe" evolved into something that conjured "racist alt-right" thoughts for most Americans but was used as a symbol of rebellion against dictatorship for those people living in Hong Kong. Why do you think the Pepe Wagner NFT sold for so much? It's not because of Pepe the cartoon. It's because of the ideology of his image. Period.

If the NFT were of Garfield or Snoopy superimposed on a T206 Wagner, it would not have garnered much attention. And we certainly wouldn't be discussing it on a chat board.

Exactly. He evolved. He went to a bad place with extremists. To me, that doesn't make a frog racist. Sorry.

I am not interested in racism baited discussion either. If you didn't notice, there was exactly NOTHING racist about what was sold. It was a frog and a Wags card...NFT...

If I make a meme of a US quarter, and put Hitler on it, would it make all quarters racist? You will never convince me that that NFT had anything to do with racism.

[packs]

I guess you felt like I was challenging you in some way. I was only making a point about symbols and how they can be co-opted and turned into things they weren't meant to be. Not anyone's opinion on symbols.

[egri]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

If the NFT were of Garfield or Snoopy superimposed on a T206 Wagner, it would not have garnered much attention. And we certainly wouldn't be discussing it on a chat board.

Omega put Snoopy on a watch, and that piece is now backordered for the next several years and selling on the grey market at 3-4x retail. It's certainly getting a lot of chatter on watch collecting boards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egri

Omega put Snoopy on a watch, and that piece is now backordered for the next several years and selling on the grey market at 3-4x retail. It's certainly getting a lot of chatter on watch collecting boards.

I'll just have to stick with my Speedmaster I guess.

[egri]

From the auction description:

This NFT is one of 101 minted, with many of them lost in wallets making the population much lower than the original issuance.

That clunk was my eyes rolling into the back of my head.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Leon

That is a bunch of bullshit. People can put anything on a meme and have it mean something different. Of course anybody putting a Hitler mustache on him, or swastika etc.....then yes, that is racist. A pure Pepe is not racist. He is a frog. I love frogs. Leave him alone. Putting Pepe on a Wags isn't racist.
.

I didn't say the image as drawn was racist. But, facts are facts - Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacists. Sometimes benign images or symbols get co-opted - such as the swastika. I was expressing surprise that an image that has been co-opted was being sold by Goldin. You're making a distinction where one doesn't exist.

Lemme just re-emphasize, Goldin can do whatever they want. I honestly don't care one way or the other if they sell it. But I am surprised.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...htmlstory.html

https://www.statepress.com/article/2...hite-supremacy

https://www.vox.com/2016/9/21/128936...g-donald-trump

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I didn't say the image as drawn was racist. But, facts are facts - Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacists. Sometimes benign images or symbols get co-opted - such as the swastika. I was expressing surprise that an image that has been co-opted was being sold by Goldin. You're making a distinction where one doesn't exist.

Lemme just re-emphasize, Goldin can do whatever they want. I honestly don't care one way or the other if they sell it. But I am surprised.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...htmlstory.html

https://www.statepress.com/article/2...hite-supremacy

https://www.vox.com/2016/9/21/128936...g-donald-trump

Thanks for the articles. I had read the first one. I am not co-opting him. Sorry. He's a frog.

[Kidnapped18]

We still have swastikas on our county courthouse. Courthouse was built in 1931, Hitler rose to power in 1933.

Most people don't pay attention to them or have any clue they are there.

I watched Da Vinci Code early this am lots of symbols can be interpreted different ways and be co opted for whatever use a person wants.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

We still have swastikas on our county courthouse. Courthouse was built in 1931, Hitler rose to power in 1933.

Most people don't pay attention to them or have any clue they are there.

I watched Da Vinci Code early this am lots of symbols can be interpreted different ways and be co opted for whatever use a person wants.

Surely in all this time there has been controversy about getting rid of them?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I didn't say the image as drawn was racist. But, facts are facts - Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacists.

That only matters to people who:
1. Give white supremacists any credibility whatsoever
2. People who want to keep racial tensions strong by finding racism wherever they look.

For me, I give white supremacists zero credibility and I likewise give race baiters zero credibility. The goal should be for us to find common ground and unity, not constantly look to group people based on race, then pit those groups against each other.

Pepe is a frog. Period. I don't care if terrorists worship him or some other group sews his image in their leather jackets, the cartoon is a frog.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Pepe is a frog. Period. I don't care if terrorists worship him or some other group sews his image in their leather jackets, the cartoon is a frog.

I generally agree with you. That said, even Leon admits that he thinks some benign symbols are objectionable. What's the line?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I generally agree with you. That said, even Leon admits that he thinks some benign symbols are objectionable. What's the line?

Whatever white supremacists do, say, or use as a symbol should be 100% irrelevant to every sane person on earth and beyond.

If Charles Manson had a Yogi Bear tattoo, would that mean Yogi was "co-opted" and Yogi cartoons were suddenly racist?

[BobbyStrawberry]

deleted

[Leon]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

That's a nice line of escapist thought, but the Department of Homeland Security, Attorney General and FBI beg to differ:


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/u...remacists.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1810615.html

Probably need your full name out here to say someone feels a certain way. Read the rule at the top of the page in bold......thanks

And I also don't give those people any cred. Law enforcement does because they get to deal with them. I don't have to and won't and I don't care what extremists say. It's a frog.

[ALR-bishop]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...i=uoMQw3iHDoIR

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Leon

Probably need your full name out here to say someone feels a certain way. Read the rule at the top of the page in bold......thanks

And I also don't give those people any cred. Law enforcement does because they get to deal with them. I don't have to and won't and I don't care what extremists say. It's a frog.

Hi Leon, I'd rather not do that here, so I'll just delete the prior post. Thanks for clarifying

[dbrown]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Am a little surprised Goldin sold this. Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacy. Would they sell Wagner in a KKK hood? I mean, they can sell whatever they want, I'm just surprised.

100% agree. Pepe is the mascot of American dipshit white supremacy and anti-semitism now. Whoever made this NFT was completely aware of what Pepe means. Whoever bought it probably does too.

I remember when Leon ran that Stormfront guy out of here several years ago. Those were the days.


David

[MattyC]

If that NFT of the Wagner is not the hobby jumping the shark, I don't know what is. The only other equivalent-magnitude shark jumping I can think of is PSA debasing itself by slabbing the doodles of that internet false-profit snake oil salesman Gary V. Together, those two events say a lot about where the hobby is, and how desperate a money play it is for some people. Thankfully, for many of us, it is still about collecting cards we find beautiful of a sport we love.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by dbrown

100% agree. Pepe is the mascot of American dipshit white supremacy and anti-semitism now. Whoever made this NFT was completely aware of what Pepe means. Whoever bought it probably does too.

I remember when Leon ran that Stormfront guy out of here several years ago. Those were the days.


David

Not sure a man who celebrates a cdv of men in black face as one of his favorite pieces is exactly gonna be your shining knight in this moment.
That's alright though, older caucasian men are always the last to see the value of change - hence their lawns are always looking good.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Not sure a man who celebrates a cdv of men in black face as one of his favorite pieces is exactly gonna be your shining knight in this moment.
That's alright though, older caucasian men are always the last to see the value of change - hence their lawns are always looking good.

Comments like this are why race should not be discussed on this sub along with politics and religion. Everybody gets hyper triggered and can't play nice.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Not sure a man who celebrates a cdv of men in black face as one of his favorite pieces is exactly gonna be your shining knight in this moment.
That's alright though, older caucasian men are always the last to see the value of change - hence their lawns are always looking good.

I represent that!! BTW, they are frog face to me. Pepe Frog LOL


.

[Shoeless Moe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emQ6_PrRzIk

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Not sure a man who celebrates a cdv of men in black face as one of his favorite pieces is exactly gonna be your shining knight in this moment.
That's alright though, older caucasian men are always the last to see the value of change - hence their lawns are always looking good.

And hardly anyone seems to realize the difference between what was and what is. And many of those people celebrate outright criminals while decrying the actions however misguided of people who likely died more than 20 years ago.

[Snapolit1]

Judging past behavior by today's standards is a vexing question and a serious one. It's not an easy one. Behaviors we condemn today, and rightfully so, were generally accepted at one point. How do we view the people who condoned them at the time? I don't give them a moral free pass, and I also understand the mitigating circumstances of history.

[Exhibitman]

I thought Pepe was a skunk...

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Judging past behavior by today's standards is a vexing question and a serious one. It's not an easy one. Behaviors we condemn today, and rightfully so, were generally accepted at one point. How do we view the people who condoned them at the time? I don't give them a moral free pass, and I also understand the mitigating circumstances of history.

Yes, it is easy: don't do it. It's only recently that the Woke religion has decided to take down history and cancel what was the norm of the past. It had better be a faze. Past generations didn't do it. You simply cannot use today's standards to judge past behaviors. Learn from history but you simply cannot change what already happened. If it keeps up, we'll have a sterile and conformed society like straight out of 1984.

Taking down statues of Jefferson and Washington is a tragic waste of time and energy. What do you think history is going to say about what is going on in today's outrage of the minute culture? Many of the very people who are tearing down history don't know squat about history or context of it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

Yes, it is easy: don't do it. It's only recently that the Woke religion has decided to take down history and cancel what was the norm of the past. It had better be a faze. Past generations didn't do it. You simply cannot use today's standards to judge past behaviors. Learn from history but you simply cannot change what already happened. If it keeps up, we'll have a sterile and conformed society like straight out of 1984.

Taking down statues of Jefferson and Washington is a tragic waste of time and energy. What do you think history is going to say about what is going on in today's outrage of the minute culture? Many of the very people who are tearing down history don't know squat about history or context of it.

I think you have to be reasonable. It's one thing not to have a state Capitol fly the Confederate flag, it's quite another to take down a statue of Thomas Jefferson of all people or to change a school named for Abraham Lincoln of all people. And it's not like every famous and accomplished person of color has been a saint either.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by dbrown

100% agree. Pepe is the mascot of American dipshit white supremacy and anti-semitism now. Whoever made this NFT was completely aware of what Pepe means. Whoever bought it probably does too.

I remember when Leon ran that Stormfront guy out of here several years ago. Those were the days.


David

He wasn't run out of here...he was still posting, buying, selling and trading up until he just recently passed away.