The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are other cases where police overreact and kill unarmed white people -- there was just one in Massachusetts and also a case of a mentally disabled young man in perhaps Louisiana. They just don't get the media and Twitter airplay they would if the victims were Black. They don't fit the narrative.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are cases where police overreact and kill unarmed white people -- there was just one in Massachusetts and also a case of a mentally disabled young man in perhaps Louisiana. They just don't get the media and Twitter airplay they would if the victims were Black. They don't fit the narrative.

There's also the current Colorado case where police tased a 75-year old white man for no reason, knocking him unconscious and eventually causing a stroke and burst appendix. That one has gotten a little media attention but nowhere near as much as it should.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

There's also the current Colorado case where police tased a 75-year old white man for no reason, knocking him unconscious and eventually causing a stroke and burst appendix. That one has gotten a little media attention but nowhere near as much as it should.

No reflexive tweets screaming outrage even before any of the facts are known, eh?

[vintagetoppsguy]

If you have a cell phone (or any other object) in your hand in a dark alley, on a dark night, and the officers can't identify the object but repeatedly ask you to drop whatever you're holding, that is just as good as being armed.

I personally believe that officers should only have to ask someone one time to comply and, if they don't, then have the authority to use deadly force.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If you have a cell phone (or any other object) in your hand in a dark alley, on a dark night, and the officers can't identify the object but repeatedly ask you to drop whatever you're holding, that is just as good as being armed.

I personally believe that officers should only have to ask someone one time to comply and, if they don't, then have the authority to use deadly force.

I think you have to look at these things on a case by case basis but two things. One, yes, at some point the police have the right to self defense if the suspect doesn't stand down; and two, the reflexive presumption and outrage any time a Black person is involved that the police acted BECAUSE the suspect was Black is misplaced. It may be the case, it may not be, but wait for the facts.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I personally believe that officers should only have to ask someone one time to comply and, if they don't, then have the authority to use deadly force.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this. It's a scientific fact that people's minds and bodies shut down in response to high stress situations (i.e. police interactions). Requiring compliance on the first order - especially since police orders are often shouted from multiple directions and conflict with each other - is a completely unrealistic, ridiculous standard. Have you ever said "what?" in response to a question or instruction from your spouse/significant other? Yes? Now imagine that in a police interaction - under your idea, the police would be justified in killing you. "Show me your license and registration" "what?" *BLAM*. C'mon.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this. It's a scientific fact that people's minds and bodies shut down in response to high stress situations (i.e. police interactions). Requiring compliance on the first order - especially since police orders are often shouted from multiple directions and conflict with each other - is a completely unrealistic, ridiculous standard. Have you ever said "what?" in response to a question or instruction from your spouse/significant other? Yes? Now imagine that in a police interaction - under your idea, the police would be justified in killing you. "Show me your license and registration" "what?" *BLAM*. C'mon.

There is a difference between a request such as, "Show me your license and registration...BLAM" and "put the f'ing gun down...BLAM" Most will get that, but apparently not all.

Edited to add: Jacob Blake is a good example of what I am referring to. Why did it take so many commands until the officer finally shot? Personally, I think that officer needs to spend more time training on the pistol range. How do you squeeze off 4 shots and not get one kill shot?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

There is a difference between a request such as, "Show me your license and registration...BLAM" and "put the f'ing gun down...BLAM" Most will get that, but apparently not all.

And if you're holding a cellphone? And you have four people screaming at you with a spotlight on you? "Drop the gun!" "Get down!" "Put your hands up!"
Which command do you comply with? Either way, you're not complying with one which justifies deadly force in your eyes. It's *ridiculous*.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Tabe

And if you're holding a cellphone? And you have four people screaming at you with a spotlight on you? "Drop the gun!" "Get down!" "Put your hands up!"
Which command do you comply with? Either way, you're not complying with one which justifies deadly force in your eyes. It's *ridiculous*.

I get what you're saying, but your not addressing the root of the problem. Why did it take four people screaming at you with a spotlight on you in the first place?

You did something wrong. You got caught. Drop whatever you're holding and throw your hands in the air. Why is that difficult? Why does it take 4 officers (or in many cases a lot more).

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I get what you're saying, but your not addressing the root of the problem. Why did it take four people screaming at you with a spotlight on you in the first place?

Because sometimes a large number of police all respond at once? Surely you've seen that?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You did something wrong. You got caught.

Ah, a presumption of guilt. What if you DIDN'T do anything wrong? Do the police absolutely *NEVER* confront anyone who has done nothing wrong?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Drop whatever you're holding and throw your hands in the air.

BLAM, you're dead, for not getting on the ground.