The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

Don't think you or many here get it.

The Indian nation consider themselves a 'people', a descendant race and heritage that would choose to not allow people to simply use the label for their own edification.

So, just like there won't be a Chicago Jews, or San Fransisco Negroes, or Manhattan Muslims, Toronto Asians, New Orleans Africans or other such ridiculous and improper titling, it is reasonable IMO for others not to be able to appropriate and use however they like the naming label Indians - with whatever associations or marketing selling out they choose and with little care for the very proud nation of human beings inhabiting this land pre Western discovery.
Would seem very easy to understand looking at what the Cleveland BBC did previously in creating the Chief Wahoo mascot.

I don't get what people feel is such a hardship to give up, when you are offending people on the one hand, but could so easily remedy with having care over the language one uses.

BTW, my vote would have been for Spiders too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Whither the Notre Dame Fighting Irish?

[68Hawk]

I need to stick to the cards.
People are A holes.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Don't think you or many here get it.

Well that’s very apparent since Indians are in India and Native Americans are labeled as Indians because some chucklehead got his navigation all wrong.


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[BobC]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Well that’s very apparent since Indians are in India and Native Americans are labeled as Indians because some chucklehead got his navigation all wrong.


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Maybe what the Cleveland BBC could have done was to check with people from India then to see if they had an issue with their nationality being used as the name for a professional sports team, and if not, just dump any association with the Chief Wahoo mascot or anything related to native Americans and simply declare from now on the Cleveland Indians moniker had nothing to do with native Americans anymore. As someone else pointed out, not all ethnic or other groups have an objection to the use of their name like that. At least I've never heard of anyone complaing about the Fighting Irish, Celtics, or the Vikings, among others.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by BobC

Maybe what the Cleveland BBC could have done was to check with people from India then to see if they had an issue with their nationality being used as the name for a professional sports team, and if not, just dump any association with the Chief Wahoo mascot or anything related to native Americans and simply declare from now on the Cleveland Indians moniker had nothing to do with native Americans anymore. As someone else pointed out, not all ethnic or other groups have an objection to the use of their name like that. At least I've never heard of anyone complaing about the Fighting Irish, Celtics, or the Vikings, among others.

Well, the Cleveland BBC can do as they see fit. Free market and all. They also dumped Chief Wahoo ~3 years ago.


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[BobC]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Well, the Cleveland BBC can do as they see fit. Free market and all. They also dumped Chief Wahoo ~3 years ago.


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They don't put Chief Wahoo on the uniforms, but last I heard the team still owns the copyright and I believe they still have Chief Wahoo adorned items selling in their gift shops. So they did not completely dump the mascot and are still apparently making some money off it.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Personally, I think the name change is long overdue, but I don't think they made a great choice with "Guardians".

Also, out of curiosity–with all the discussion of "white privilege" and "cancel culture"–is there is a single post on this thread from someone who is not white?

[packs]

There is all this talk about cancel culture etc. but the same people who rally against cancel culture, which is ultimately based around respect, are people who took huge issue with things like kneeling during a song or wanting to have a say in what bathrooms people use. Everyone on either side thinks the argument is dumb to be having in the first place.

[gawaintheknight]

I wonder if there are any people on the board as a whole who aren't white men....

Ted

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Personally, I think the name change is long overdue, but I don't think they made a great choice with "Guardians".

Also, out of curiosity–with all the discussion of "white privilege" and "cancel culture"–is there is a single post on this thread from someone who is not white?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BobC

They don't put Chief Wahoo on the uniforms, but last I heard the team still owns the copyright and I believe they still have Chief Wahoo adorned items selling in their gift shops. So they did not completely dump the mascot and are still apparently making some money off it.

That is correct:

https://magazine.promomarketing.com/...erican-groups/

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Tabe

That is correct:

https://magazine.promomarketing.com/...erican-groups/

Yup, and I'd mentioned before how I wondered had the Cleveland team been giving a cut of their money to native American tribes and/or charities all along, how those native Americans would have reacted had the team decided to change the name anyway, and because of that, informed them they weren't getting money anymore. So as that article you linked to says, the team still sells Chief Wahoo items, but now donates a part of those proceeds to native Americans. So if the native Americans are trully against the use of the term Indians and Chief Wahoo image, wouldn't you expect them to turn down the money and tell the team to just stop all use and sale of items with that name and image? How much anyone want to bet they take the money? Oh, there will still be other native Americans that would complain and want the use stopped, but who can those still dissenting native Americans really blame then?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Chicago Jews, or San Fransisco Negroes, or Manhattan Muslims, Toronto Asians, New Orleans Africans

When I was a kid, we played Cowboys and Indians. We never played Jews, Negroes, Muslims, Asians or Africans. But that was just the kids I played with. Maybe it was different in other parts of the country?

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

People are A holes.

Yup.