Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Has anyone ever questioned Koufax' regime of cortisone (steroid) injections?

It's a slippery slope, isn't it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It's a slippery slope, isn't it?

I guess people would say John and Koufax underwent procedures to "cure" something wrong whereas Bonds et al were simply seeking to enhance performance but were healthy?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I guess people would say John and Koufax underwent procedures to "cure" something wrong whereas Bonds et al were simply seeking to enhance performance but were healthy?

Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.

Bonds could say his substances "cured" his insufficient muscle mass and relative lack of power.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.

Bonds could say his substances "cured" his insufficient muscle mass and relative lack of power.

People always defend and distinguish amphetamines, but if they didn't improve performance, why did guys use them?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People always defend and distinguish amphetamines, but if they didn't improve performance, why did guys use them?

Some people feel they need a cup of coffee to start the day. Chemically or psychologically, maybe it helps them get going.

[HistoricNewspapers]

From 1975-1981 George Foster's averages per 162 games are:

.297 BA
38 HR
126 RBI
99 Runs scored
149 OPS+

Garvey's best 7 year run 1974-1980:
.311 BA
24 HR
106 RBI
88 Runs scored
130 OPS+

Cecil Cooper best 7 year run 1977-1983
.316 BA
26 HR
109 RBI
99 Runs Scored
137 OPS+

Kent Hrbek 1984-1990
.288
30
102
86
134 OPS+

Seems those arguments about Garvey being a run producer belong to someone else. Foster has him beat in old school measurements and sabermetric measurements during their peaks that happened at basically the exact same time. Cooper has him beat too.

Garvey's peak isn't that special and there are guys who are not in the HOF that have just as good or better peaks. Foster and HRbek are also both two time WS champions.


Dwight Evans is really the player from that era that has the best case to be inducted.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Some people feel they need a cup of coffee to start the day. Chemically or psychologically, maybe it helps them get going.

And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?

Exactly.

If a pill makes you more alert - allowing you to make decisions a split second quicker, how is that not performance enhancing? I would argue that faster reaction time aids a hitter more than additional muscles.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?

But is chemistry cause or effect?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.

A huge part of the increased velocity is that the arm is actually in better shape because of all the rehab the pitcher does. It's grueling rehab and the player ends up in much better shape (all over) if they do it correctly, hence added velocity.