Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't see Helton. I think Walker just made it despite the Coors Field thing but I don't see it happening twice.

I don't see Will Clark, to me quintessential Hall of Very Good.

Hernandez and Olerud, no way, agree with you. I don't even understand the support for Hernandez.

Delgado, yeah, interesting case, so is Beltran. Both feel like Dawson to me.

Votto, meh, not even 2000 hits yet, not feeling the love. He doesn't do very well on Baseball Reference metrics either.

[Mike D.]

With 70 WAR and 434 career homers, I think Beltran makes it. Not first ballot or anything, but he’ll get in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

With 70 WAR and 434 career homers, I think Beltran makes it. Not first ballot or anything, but he’ll get in.

He may get punished a bit for the scandal, but yes.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He may get punished a bit for the scandal, but yes.

Perhaps, but I’m not sure this scandal has that much staying power, as the fired managers (beyond Beltran) both got re-hired a year after being banned.

[ThomasL]

IMO - Helton and Votto are easy HOFers

McGriff is right on that line of HOF and HOVG

Now if we are throwing out names of personal favorites that need a little more consideration...he's probably a HOVG guy but I loved Michael Young.

[Peter_Spaeth]

On the pitching side, surprised Pettite so far has gained so few votes.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see Helton. I think Walker just made it despite the Coors Field thing but I don't see it happening twice.

I don't see Will Clark, to me quintessential Hall of Very Good.

Hernandez and Olerud, no way, agree with you. I don't even understand the support for Hernandez.

Delgado, yeah, interesting case, so is Beltran.

Votto, meh, not even 2000 hits yet, not feeling the love.

I think Helton will end up in, only because of Larry Walker. I think he will get elected his tenth year or by an era committee at some point.

Beltran never 'felt like' a Hall of Famer to me, but his counting stats accumulated to where I thought his career value was going to put him in. No idea what happens now that his career ends in scandal. Will be interesting to see. I thought Lance Berkman from that Astro's team deserved a serious look as well, not saying he should be a yes but he merited much more than 1.2% of the vote and immediately disappearing from the ballot. Sabrmetrics have been kind to him as well.

Votto is heavily benefited by Sabrmetrics and walking constantly. As more and more of the writers adopt this mindset, I think he will end up making it assuming he doesn't hang on too long and kill his career rate stats. 18th in War, 9th in WAR 7, 15th in JAWS among 1B with everyone higher in the HOF, active or a steroid guy. I'm okay with him getting in, I'd probably vote for him on the strength of his OPS and On Base crowns.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think Helton will end up in, only because of Larry Walker. I think he will get elected his tenth year or by an era committee at some point.

Beltran never 'felt like' a Hall of Famer to me, but his counting stats accumulated to where I thought his career value was going to put him in. No idea what happens now that his career ends in scandal. Will be interesting to see. I thought Lance Berkman from that Astro's team deserved a serious look as well, not saying he should be a yes but he merited much more than 1.2% of the vote and immediately disappearing from the ballot. Sabrmetrics have been kind to him as well.

Votto is heavily benefited by Sabrmetrics and walking constantly. As more and more of the writers adopt this mindset, I think he will end up making it assuming he doesn't hang on too long and kill his career rate stats. 18th in War, 9th in WAR 7, 15th in JAWS among 1B with everyone higher in the HOF, active or a steroid guy. I'm okay with him getting in, I'd probably vote for him on the strength of his OPS and On Base crowns.

His productive career seems to have ended at age 33. He's already been hanging around doing very little for 4 years IMO. Counting numbers still matter to some extent and at a little over 300 HR and probably a little over 2000 hits when all is said and done, doesn't feel like an obvious HOFer to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even with Coors, Helton did very little after age 30.

[Mozzie22]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see Helton. I think Walker just made it despite the Coors Field thing but I don't see it happening twice.

I don't see Will Clark, to me quintessential Hall of Very Good.

Hernandez and Olerud, no way, agree with you. I don't even understand the support for Hernandez.

Delgado, yeah, interesting case, so is Beltran. Both feel like Dawson to me.

Votto, meh, not even 2000 hits yet, not feeling the love. He doesn't do very well on Baseball Reference metrics either.

Keith Hernandez is the greatest defensive first baseman in MLB history. Period.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mozzie22

Keith Hernandez is the greatest defensive first baseman in MLB history. Period.

I won't argue with that but it doesn't seem to have persuaded many people as he never got more than about 10 percent of the vote.

[Kzoo]

I personally believe that if Lou Whitaker played for the Yankees his whole career, like he did for the Tigers, he would have already been in. His career WAR of 75.1 is higher than Ryne Sandberg and Roberto Alomar who played during the same era. A career batting average of .276 isn't great and another World Series title with that core group of mid 80's Tigers would have benefitted his argument, as well.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

I personally believe that if Lou Whitaker played for the Yankees his whole career, like he did for the Tigers, he would have already been in. His career WAR of 75.1 is higher than Ryne Sandberg and Roberto Alomar who played during the same era. A career batting average of .276 isn't great and another World Series title with that core group of mid 80's Tigers would have benefitted his argument, as well.

Somewhat ironically, Whitaker’s being a Tiger is now probably an asset. “Trammel’s in, Whitaker should be too” will, I think, now end up putting him in.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

I personally believe that if Lou Whitaker played for the Yankees his whole career, like he did for the Tigers, he would have already been in. His career WAR of 75.1 is higher than Ryne Sandberg and Roberto Alomar who played during the same era. A career batting average of .276 isn't great and another World Series title with that core group of mid 80's Tigers would have benefitted his argument, as well.

Well if Whitaker is in, Randolph is right there too. It's a slippery slope. And I am not saying Randolph should be in...

[Bram99]

Allie Pierce Reynolds. The Super Chief.

The ace of the staff for a team that won 5 consecutive World Championships in the golden age of baseball (early 1950's). Won 6 world series. 6X all-star. ERA title. 2x strikeout title. 7-2 record in World Series games with 3 saves as well. 137 complete games, 36 shutouts. 2 no hitters in 1952. 182-107 record plus 48 saves. WAR is lower than most pitchers in HOF, but taht doesn't include post-season where he shined.

Traded for by the Yankees from the Indians for another HOF player (Joe Gordon) because one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game (Joe DiMaggio) wanted him on his team rather than having to face Allie.

A bit shorter career than most HOF pitchers. Career cuth short a bit after struggling through his last two seasons with back and knee pain due to a team bus that crashed into a bridge.

To show how well he was thought of in his time, check out the 1961 Fleer All-time Greats set which includes the Super Chief.