Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected" - Net54baseball.com Forums
  NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
 Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
 Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
 Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions
Reload this Page Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"
Register NEW Chat! Who's Chatting FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-06-2021, 08:45 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 34,306
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
It's a slippery slope, isn't it?
I guess people would say John and Koufax underwent procedures to "cure" something wrong whereas Bonds et al were simply seeking to enhance performance but were healthy?
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-06-2021, 08:49 AM
Mark17's Avatar
Mark17 Mark17 is online now
M@rk S@tterstr0m
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,357
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I guess people would say John and Koufax underwent procedures to "cure" something wrong whereas Bonds et al were simply seeking to enhance performance but were healthy?
Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.

Bonds could say his substances "cured" his insufficient muscle mass and relative lack of power.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-06-2021, 08:58 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 34,306
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.

Bonds could say his substances "cured" his insufficient muscle mass and relative lack of power.
People always defend and distinguish amphetamines, but if they didn't improve performance, why did guys use them?
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-06-2021, 09:13 AM
Mark17's Avatar
Mark17 Mark17 is online now
M@rk S@tterstr0m
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,357
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
People always defend and distinguish amphetamines, but if they didn't improve performance, why did guys use them?
Some people feel they need a cup of coffee to start the day. Chemically or psychologically, maybe it helps them get going.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2021, 09:50 AM
HistoricNewspapers HistoricNewspapers is offline
Brian
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 187
Default
From 1975-1981 George Foster's averages per 162 games are:

.297 BA
38 HR
126 RBI
99 Runs scored
149 OPS+

Garvey's best 7 year run 1974-1980:
.311 BA
24 HR
106 RBI
88 Runs scored
130 OPS+

Cecil Cooper best 7 year run 1977-1983
.316 BA
26 HR
109 RBI
99 Runs Scored
137 OPS+

Kent Hrbek 1984-1990
.288
30
102
86
134 OPS+

Seems those arguments about Garvey being a run producer belong to someone else. Foster has him beat in old school measurements and sabermetric measurements during their peaks that happened at basically the exact same time. Cooper has him beat too.

Garvey's peak isn't that special and there are guys who are not in the HOF that have just as good or better peaks. Foster and HRbek are also both two time WS champions.


Dwight Evans is really the player from that era that has the best case to be inducted.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-06-2021, 09:51 AM
darwinbulldog's Avatar
darwinbulldog darwinbulldog is offline
Glenn
Glen.n Sch.ey-d
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,525
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
Some people feel they need a cup of coffee to start the day. Chemically or psychologically, maybe it helps them get going.
And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?
Last edited by darwinbulldog; 07-06-2021 at 09:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-06-2021, 09:58 AM
Mark17's Avatar
Mark17 Mark17 is online now
M@rk S@tterstr0m
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,357
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?
Exactly.

If a pill makes you more alert - allowing you to make decisions a split second quicker, how is that not performance enhancing? I would argue that faster reaction time aids a hitter more than additional muscles.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-06-2021, 10:34 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 34,306
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
And what, after all, is psychology if not chemistry?
But is chemistry cause or effect?
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-06-2021, 06:16 PM
Tabe's Avatar
Tabe Tabe is offline
Chris
Chr.is Ta.bar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,522
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
Maybe for Koufax, but when guys can throw harder after having Tommy John surgery, I don't think that point holds.
A huge part of the increased velocity is that the arm is actually in better shape because of all the rehab the pitcher does. It's grueling rehab and the player ends up in much better shape (all over) if they do it correctly, hence added velocity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baseball Hall of Fame "Shoebox Treasures" Exhibit sixpointone Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 1 04-05-2019 04:21 PM
1977 Exhibits "Baseball's Great Hall of Fame" Bram99 Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once. 1 01-27-2019 10:39 PM
1970 article on "Card Collector's Hall of Fame" trdcrdkid Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 03-04-2016 03:12 PM
SOLD!!!! "HALL of FAME HEROES" COMPLETE 44 CARD SET! Ends Sun 12-8! GoldenAge50s Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once. 5 12-08-2013 09:24 PM
2013 Hall of Fame "Special" Induction 7/28...any Net54 members attending? orator1 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 07-28-2013 06:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 PM.

RSS - Contact Us - Home - Archive - Top

ebay GSB