Outed PSA 10 Gary Carter being sold for second time by PWCC after PSA "review"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I've said countless times, somewhere along the way the flip became the commodity. Many factors involved perhaps, but ego is probably number one.

Some would say money is number one.
.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Leon

Some would say money is number one.
.

When people say it’s not about the Money they’re fooling themselves, it’s always about the money number one, it’s the way or the world.

In words of the late B.I G.

More Money More Problems

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

When people say it’s not about the Money they’re fooling themselves, it’s always about the money number one, it’s the way or the world.

In words of the late B.I G.

More Money More Problems

I disagree, it's never about the money, for me it's always the friendships you make, the mutual love of the hobby, and helping each other out to fulfill whatever collecting path we go down. I'm grateful to so many members on this board that have helped me build my collection, the underlying constant with each one of them has always been trust, respect, and integrity.

That being said, it takes money to build a collection but that's a different discussion.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I disagree, it's never about the money, for me it's always the friendships you make, the mutual love of the hobby, and helping each other out to fulfill whatever collecting path we go down. I'm grateful to so many members on this board that have helped me build my collection, the underlying constant with each one of them has always been trust, respect, and integrity.

That being said, it takes money to build a collection but that's a different discussion.

From what I’ve found over the past 30 year in this Hobby is many more people especially dealers, who isn’t a dealer now nowadays. It seems to me many like having these friends around more then me, Benjamin Franklin, Ulysses S. Grant and Andrew Jackson.


I’m just teasing you here!! But it’s truth hahha

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

From what I’ve found over the past 30 year in this Hobby is many more people especially dealers, who isn’t a dealer now nowadays. It seems to me many like having these friends around more then me, Benjamin Franklin, Ulysses S. Grant and Andrew Jackson.


I’m just teasing you here!! But it’s truth hahha

I would agree, Pareto Principal applies, but there's a lot of folks here that are collectors not dealers. Now if your business is buying and selling cards it should be all about the dead presidents cuz there's not a lot of room for altruism.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

...there's not a lot of room for altruism.

Especially if PSA won't slab it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One thing is for sure. This hobby is never, ever, ever going to clean itself up. Either law enforcement creates some deterrence this time that is enough to make at least some difference, or more likely, it doesn't.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I would agree, Pareto Principal applies, but there's a lot of folks here that are collectors not dealers. Now if your business is buying and selling cards it should be all about the dead presidents cuz there's not a lot of room for altruism.

Plenty of room for ethics though

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Plenty of room for ethics though

100% agree Scott, there are a lot of good dealers in this hobby. I wish they got half the press the unethical folks do.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I've said countless times, somewhere along the way the flip became the commodity. Many factors involved perhaps, but ego is probably number one.

Originally Posted by Leon

Some would say money is number one.
.

Money and greed is what leads trimmers to do what they do. Ego is what causes a Millionaire/Billionaire, to spend 12 grand on a Gary Carter Rookie card that already has red flags attached to it.

.....and let's be honest. You might not be rich and saved up for that bucket list card for that amount. Prior to the last 24 months, it might have been a very nice Mantle, Cobb, Aaron, Mays, Gretzky, Chamberlain, Jordan or even Ruth.

Nobody has an already outed Gary Carter Rookie card on their bucket list, unless they have boatloads of disposable income, 35+ lbs. of non-recyclable plastic housing hundreds of 1975 Topps cards (likely a good portion of them also trimmed), and gunning for high placement on a magical "registry list", that might one day get them a pat on the back, a paper certificate, and a few free vouchers from PSA, if they're feeling especially generous.

They don't especially care whether that card has been trimmed or not. They just want to win the "I have the most money to spend on a 1975 Topps Baseball set" ribbon.

[FrankWakefield]

To some extent, the folks who are enchanted with graded cards and the number grades enable the crap of which some complain. Maybe break cards out of that plastic; and return to the joy of having the card, instead of the joy of the slab (as if there's any joy in that). And if you're buying that altered / doctored / regraded card, buy the CARD, and break it outa the deceptive slab as soon as you get it.

If you're upset with the altering and regrading, add to that being upset with your own faith in the third party grading; and then quit financially supporting it.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

To some extent, the folks who are enchanted with graded cards and the number grades enable the crap of which some complain. Maybe break cards out of that plastic; and return to the joy of having the card, instead of the joy of the slab (as if there's any joy in that). And if you're buying that altered / doctored / regraded card, buy the CARD, and break it outa the deceptive slab as soon as you get it.

If you're upset with the altering and regrading, add to that being upset with your own faith in the third party grading; and then quit financially supporting it.

You’re right. But they won’t, because they’re addicted to the Money...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

To some extent, the folks who are enchanted with graded cards and the number grades enable the crap of which some complain. Maybe break cards out of that plastic; and return to the joy of having the card, instead of the joy of the slab (as if there's any joy in that). And if you're buying that altered / doctored / regraded card, buy the CARD, and break it outa the deceptive slab as soon as you get it.

If you're upset with the altering and regrading, add to that being upset with your own faith in the third party grading; and then quit financially supporting it.

That's about as persuasive as saying women should stop enabling assault by dressing provocatively.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

To some extent, the folks who are enchanted with graded cards and the number grades enable the crap of which some complain. Maybe break cards out of that plastic; and return to the joy of having the card, instead of the joy of the slab (as if there's any joy in that). And if you're buying that altered / doctored / regraded card, buy the CARD, and break it outa the deceptive slab as soon as you get it.

If you're upset with the altering and regrading, add to that being upset with your own faith in the third party grading; and then quit financially supporting it.

You just outlined exactly what I do if a card on my want-list happens to reside in a slab. It gets broken out the minute I receive it.

It makes absolutely no sense to me, the exponentially ridiculous prices people pay for a card with corners that might have a microscopic difference in wear. Aside from the high likelihood of it being altered... who the hell cares anyway? The lower graded card often has a clearer image or better focus. It's just someone else's (often flawed) opinion.

I'll take the "7" and a new SUV over the likely altered "10" (with no new car) any day of the week. And I will free the "7" from it's corporate looking bar-coded case as soon as it arrives.

Originally Posted by perezfan

You just outlined exactly what I do if a card on my want-list happens to reside in a slab. It gets broken out the minute I receive it.

It makes absolutely no sense to me, the exponentially ridiculous prices people pay for a card with corners that might have a microscopic difference in wear. Aside from the high likelihood of it being altered... who the hell cares anyway? The lower graded card often has a clearer image or better focus. It's just someone else's (often flawed) opinion.

I'll take the "7" and a new SUV over the likely altered "10" (with no new car) any day of the week. And I will free the "7" from it's corporate looking bar-coded case as soon as it arrives.

I agree looking for the Holy Grail Of a Card near perfect is assine it is all Opinions of a third party grading system that some of them dont know their ass from a hole in aground and Opinions are like Ass holes Everyone has one

Ron Petersen

[CobbSpikedMe]

I don't understand the high grade game at all when a 0.5 difference in a grade can mean a $10K+ difference in price with some cards. But I do like the look of my prewar cards in SGC holders a lot. I have PSA cards too, but I have those because I needed the card and it happened to be in a PSA slab. My cards are all low grade and have no chance of being altered to get a 0.5 grade bump for more money.

I don't like the fraud and altering of cards for a higher grade or when a seller knowingly sells an altered card with half assed disclaimers that a grading company reviewed the card and still graded it the same way. That's just crap and says a lot about the ethics of the seller.

Andy Hunt00n

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by perezfan

You just outlined exactly what I do if a card on my want-list happens to reside in a slab. It gets broken out the minute I receive it.

It makes absolutely no sense to me, the exponentially ridiculous prices people pay for a card with corners that might have a microscopic difference in wear. Aside from the high likelihood of it being altered... who the hell cares anyway? The lower graded card often has a clearer image or better focus. It's just someone else's (often flawed) opinion.

I'll take the "7" and a new SUV over the likely altered "10" (with no new car) any day of the week. And I will free the "7" from it's corporate looking bar-coded case as soon as it arrives.

this same card could have been bought for
50% of the sale price two years ago
https://www.ebay.com/itm/40273928285...oAAOSw7fJgSBB~

no stocks , bit coin or other general open to the public investments could reap the same margins , and who among you would buy a Jordan Rookie UNSLABBED ?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by megalimey

...who among you would buy a Jordan Rookie UNSLABBED ?

I'd buy an unslabbed Jordan I can examine in-hand. These days, it's probably safer than buying a slabbed one online.

[bigfanNY]

I know it will have very little. (None) effect. But I will take the time to email PSA and say that this behavior is not acceptable. Their corporate mission is to prevent altered cards from being sold in the market (LOL). If they are going to condone this behavior then they have failed. And if they have failed to continue to take money from people for a service they know they cannot or will not provide, that sounds like fraud. A class action suit would get their attention alot faster than another FBI investigation. And cards like this make it easy for jurors to understand. ( Although with prices going up it would be hard to prove damages)
Jmho
Jonathan Sterling

[G1911]

Originally Posted by megalimey

this same card could have been bought for
50% of the sale price two years ago
https://www.ebay.com/itm/40273928285...oAAOSw7fJgSBB~

no stocks , bit coin or other general open to the public investments could reap the same margins , and who among you would buy a Jordan Rookie UNSLABBED ?

I am probably a minority, but I would buy and have bought a major card unslabbed. In fact, I pay extra for an unslabbed card. There is always some small element of risk in cracking it out, and it's annoying, so unless it's a very rare or unique item, I bid 5% for a less slabbed card than I will the same card unslabbed.