Outed PSA 10 Gary Carter being sold for second time by PWCC after PSA "review"

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

From what I’ve found over the past 30 year in this Hobby is many more people especially dealers, who isn’t a dealer now nowadays. It seems to me many like having these friends around more then me, Benjamin Franklin, Ulysses S. Grant and Andrew Jackson.


I’m just teasing you here!! But it’s truth hahha

I would agree, Pareto Principal applies, but there's a lot of folks here that are collectors not dealers. Now if your business is buying and selling cards it should be all about the dead presidents cuz there's not a lot of room for altruism.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

...there's not a lot of room for altruism.

Especially if PSA won't slab it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One thing is for sure. This hobby is never, ever, ever going to clean itself up. Either law enforcement creates some deterrence this time that is enough to make at least some difference, or more likely, it doesn't.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One thing is for sure. This hobby is never, ever, ever going to clean itself up. Either law enforcement creates some deterrence this time that is enough to make at least some difference, or more likely, it doesn't.

Do you think outside regulation of some sort would make an appreciable difference?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Do you think outside regulation of some sort would make an appreciable difference?

I can't imagine the mechanism for that. I am talking about old fashioned criminal law, severely punish some of these card-altering cocky scumbags making millions of dollars and maybe the rest of them will actually have to think about whether they keep doing it. Up till now, they've been doing it in some cases for three decades, with no consequence except getting rich.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't imagine the mechanism for that. I am talking about old fashioned criminal law, severely punish some of these card-altering cocky scumbags making millions of dollars and maybe the rest of them will actually have to think about whether they keep doing it.

With regard to regulation: I have heard a few people speaking in nebulous terms; however, they have not floated any remotely realistic ideas. It was likely related to all the talk about sports cards being an "unregulated asset."

As for criminal law, couldn't the card doctors (and their accomplices) be prosecuted for fraud? One conviction, whether high-profile or not, is all it would take to establish a legal precedent...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

With regard to regulation: I have heard a few people speaking in nebulous terms; however, they have not floated any remotely realistic ideas. It was likely related to all the talk about sports cards being an "unregulated asset."

As for criminal law, couldn't the card doctors (and their accomplices) be prosecuted for fraud? One conviction, whether high-profile or not, is all it would take to establish a legal precedent...

Do you think the convictions of Bill Mastro and Doug Allen changed anything? IMO only MASSIVE multiple punishments are going to send enough of a message here.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One thing is for sure. This hobby is never, ever, ever going to clean itself up. Either law enforcement creates some deterrence this time that is enough to make at least some difference, or more likely, it doesn't.

As long as this is the case, as stated above by G1911: "Something like a 1% improvement in the cards appearance produces a valuation 200x higher, and takes it from the cost of dinner to the cost of a car." Then you are correct; the hobby will never clean itself up.

And who do you think is to blame for the 1% = 200x? PSA controls the supply side by the distribution of grades, and we control the demand side by chasing and paying exponentially more $$ for exponentially smaller improvements in a card's condition. "The lure of easy money, it has a very strong appeal."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I would agree, Pareto Principal applies, but there's a lot of folks here that are collectors not dealers. Now if your business is buying and selling cards it should be all about the dead presidents cuz there's not a lot of room for altruism.

Plenty of room for ethics though

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Plenty of room for ethics though

100% agree Scott, there are a lot of good dealers in this hobby. I wish they got half the press the unethical folks do.

[SAllen2556]

I recently read the book The Man in the High Castle after watching the series on Amazon. This passage really struck me as interesting (slightly edited):

…no one could possibly estimate the percentage of forgeries in circulation. And no one—especially the dealers and the collectors themselves—wanted to.
…it had never occurred to them to ask themselves if the so-called historic art objects for sale…were genuine. Perhaps someday they would...and then the bubble would burst, the market would collapse even for the authentic pieces. A Gresham’s Law: the fakes would undermine the value of the real. And that no doubt was the motive for the failure to investigate; after all, everyone was happy. The factories…which turned out the pieces, they made their profits. The wholesalers passed them on, and the dealers displayed and advertised them. The collectors shelled out their money and carried their purchases happily home, to impress their associates, friends, and mistresses.
Nobody was hurt—until the day of reckoning. And then everyone, equally, would be ruined. But meanwhile, nobody talked about it, even the men who earned their living turning out the forgeries; they shut their own minds to what they made…

[Johnny630]

In the words of GEOEGE COSTANZA

JERRY JUST REMEMBER....IT’S NOT A LIE IF YOU BELIEVE IT.

CAN WE CHANGE TO THAT FROM NEVER GET CHEATED?