Outed PSA 10 Gary Carter being sold for second time by PWCC after PSA "review"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Do you think outside regulation of some sort would make an appreciable difference?

I can't imagine the mechanism for that. I am talking about old fashioned criminal law, severely punish some of these card-altering cocky scumbags making millions of dollars and maybe the rest of them will actually have to think about whether they keep doing it. Up till now, they've been doing it in some cases for three decades, with no consequence except getting rich.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't imagine the mechanism for that. I am talking about old fashioned criminal law, severely punish some of these card-altering cocky scumbags making millions of dollars and maybe the rest of them will actually have to think about whether they keep doing it.

With regard to regulation: I have heard a few people speaking in nebulous terms; however, they have not floated any remotely realistic ideas. It was likely related to all the talk about sports cards being an "unregulated asset."

As for criminal law, couldn't the card doctors (and their accomplices) be prosecuted for fraud? One conviction, whether high-profile or not, is all it would take to establish a legal precedent...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

With regard to regulation: I have heard a few people speaking in nebulous terms; however, they have not floated any remotely realistic ideas. It was likely related to all the talk about sports cards being an "unregulated asset."

As for criminal law, couldn't the card doctors (and their accomplices) be prosecuted for fraud? One conviction, whether high-profile or not, is all it would take to establish a legal precedent...

Do you think the convictions of Bill Mastro and Doug Allen changed anything? IMO only MASSIVE multiple punishments are going to send enough of a message here.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do you think the convictions of Bill Mastro and Doug Allen changed anything?

I suppose not. Sorry, I thought they got nailed for a shill bidding scheme, not for the card doctoring.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO only MASSIVE multiple punishments are going to send enough of a message here.

No arguments here. Perhaps I'm a bit simplistic in my thought processes; however, it seems cut and dry to me. People and companies knowingly and willingly committing fraud in the name of profits should be punished.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Read the indictments. The Wagner (for Bill) and a rebacked Plank (for Doug) were part of it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

No arguments here. Perhaps I'm a bit simplistic in my thought processes; however, it seems cut and dry to me. People and companies knowingly and willingly committing fraud in the name of profits should be punished.

Absolutely. Whether that happens, I don't know. Until then, these brazen pieces of garbage will continue to do what they do, seemingly facilitated by TPGs and many AHs who have compromised their integrity to accommodate them.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Absolutely. Whether that happens, I don't know. Until then, these brazen pieces of garbage will continue to do what they do, seemingly facilitated by TPGs and many AHs who have compromised their integrity to accommodate them.

Additionaly:

Record sales from the past 6-12 months, coupled with massive numbers of new "collectors" into the hobby, have likely taken things farther in the wrong direction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Additionaly:

Record sales from the past 6-12 months, coupled with massive numbers of new "collectors" into the hobby, have likely taken things farther in the wrong direction.

Indeed. The bottom line is that having a pool of cards with much higher grades than they would be in their natural state is a win win win for everyone except those of us who actually care. As one of the most successful pieces of garbage was heard to have said, I'm just making guys what they want.