2021 HOF Ballot

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by G1911

When he tested positive once for "something".

Nope. Players have had positive tests for taking cough medicine with the wrong ingredients. There’s no evidence that Ortiz took PEDs. Unless you think his roly-poly body is evidence.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Nope. Players have had positive tests for taking cough medicine with the wrong ingredients. There’s no evidence that Ortiz took PEDs. Unless you think his roly-poly body is evidence.

If test results are not evidence, then there is no evidence that anyone used steroids or that there was a steroid era at all. I eagerly await this standard of evidence being applied to anyone but David Ortiz.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by G1911

If test results are not evidence, then there is no evidence that anyone used steroids or that there was a steroid era at all. I eagerly await this standard of evidence being applied to anyone but David Ortiz.

But what were the test results? There were numerous false positives in the 03 results AND the tests did not distinguish between legal substances that you could get over the counter and illegal substances. After ‘03, Ortiz was tested repeatedly and was always negative, and he put up his best numbers after that. There was only that one result and because the test results were destroyed, it’s been difficult for Ortiz to clear his name.

[packs]

Good point on Felix. I just don't see a HOFer in Schilling. Johan wasn't a HOFer either but when you sum up his career you get 2 Cy Youngs, 3 ERA titles, 3 strike out titles and the pitching triple crown. Even though Johan isn't a HOFer, his career highlights sound like a player who was. Schilling doesn't have that. Though he did have considerable postseason success, which does typically tip the scale in favor of a player.

[G1911]

Considering how often the voters blow it, and that many years there are multiple pitchers with Cy Young quality seasons and other years there are none and some one wins it by default, I don't see how this is a good metric.

I'll take Schillling, Mussina or Glavine over Lincecum or Santana easily. The Hall is explicit about measuring career achievement, not single season.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by packs

Good point on Felix. I just don't see a HOFer in Schilling. Johan wasn't a HOFer either but when you sum up his career you get 2 Cy Youngs, 3 ERA titles, 3 strike out titles and the pitching triple crown. Even though Johan isn't a HOFer, his career highlights sound like a player who was. Schilling doesn't have that. Though he did have considerable postseason success, which does typically tip the scale in favor of a player.

I actually think that Santana makes it at some point, or at least gets serious consideration. Someone mentioned a “reconsideration” of what a HOF starting pitcher is in the current/recent era...there’s a good chance that when that happens, Santana may be one of the best of his era despite a short career.