2021 HOF Ballot

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

If you really want to keep informed on the voting; this update is a must

http://www.bbhoftracker.com/

Usually for players such as the top 3, you need to be comfortably past 75 percent to get in. As of today, I doubt anyone will be elected from the new player world. If anyone gets in, my instinct says it is Curt Schilling whom is being kept back from getting in because of his extreme political views.

My instinct and personal belief is if he kept slightly quieter about those, he'd already be in the HOF.

Rich

I see Schilling has just topped 75% on the tracker, and is the only one so far.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by bxb

I see Schilling has just topped 75% on the tracker, and is the only one so far.

Looking at the list of SP sorted by career WAR, it’s kind of surprising it’s taken Schilling this long.

He’s 26th all-time (BB-R WAR) and of the 25 pitchers ahead of him, only Clemens isn’t in the HOF.

The average WAR for a HOF SP is 73.3, and that average includes Young and Johnson over 160.

BTW, lovers of old time baseball will know that Jim McCormick is next on the list and also not in the Hall.

[packs]

He didn't win any Cy Youngs, he never led the league in ERA and he was never the best pitcher on any winning team he was on (Randy and Pedro were). Schilling is no more a HOFer than Tim Hudson is. They were both very good but never elite, as evidenced by Schilling's 300 K seasons in which he received no Cy Young votes for one and finished 4th in the other. That should tell you how his contemporaries viewed him as well.

[mainemule]

Originally Posted by packs

He didn't win any Cy Youngs, he never led the league in ERA and he was never the best pitcher on any winning team he was on (Randy and Pedro were). Schilling is no more a HOFer than Tim Hudson is. They were both very good but never elite, as evidenced by Schilling's 300 K seasons in which he received no Cy Young votes for one and finished 4th in the other. That should tell you how his contemporaries viewed him as well.

Hudson got a late ring with SF but how do you discount Schilling's post-season successes? Schilling was the better pitcher then Pedro in 04 and was ace of Phillies in 93. Schilling was elite when it mattered.

[packs]

Originally Posted by mainemule

Hudson got a late ring with SF but how do you discount Schilling's post-season successes? Schilling was the better pitcher then Pedro in 04 and was ace of Phillies in 93. Schilling was elite when it mattered.

Yeah but so are a lot of people that aren't HOFers. Who was more clutch than el Duque?

Schilling's entire case comes down to two three year periods where he was very good but not elite. You don't get into the HOF because you had 6 very good seasons, during which you won zero Cy Young awards.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

He didn't win any Cy Youngs, he never led the league in ERA and he was never the best pitcher on any winning team he was on (Randy and Pedro were). Schilling is no more a HOFer than Tim Hudson is. They were both very good but never elite, as evidenced by Schilling's 300 K seasons in which he received no Cy Young votes for one and finished 4th in the other. That should tell you how his contemporaries viewed him as well.

As far as the numbers go I feel like you are looking for reasons to exclude Schilling. His HOF metrics are really all there, there has never been a need to be the absolute best at your position to be an eventual HOFer, it is how guys like Tony Perez (who I love) get in.

I have seen a lot of your posts in the past and it is pretty obvious politically where you are (and there is nothing wrong with that and I am mostly in the same category) but it seems like you just kind of hate Schilling, which is understandable.

[packs]

You don't need to analyze me. I've discussed why I don't think Schilling belongs and there's no politics involved. I think he's a compiler and among the best of them. But I don't generally think compilers belong in the HOF. When I think of the comparable borderline guys of his generation who got in, like Mussina and Halladay, I can't help but see them as being in a much higher class of pitchers than Schilling and those guys weren't slam dunks to get in either. They both did get in, but I think their level is the benchmark for others, and I don't think Schilling was as good as they were.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

You don't need to analyze me. I've discussed why I don't think Schilling belongs and there's no politics involved. I think he's a compiler and among the best of them. But I don't generally think compilers belong in the HOF. When I think of the comparable borderline guys of his generation who got in, like Mussina and Halladay, I can't help but see them as being in a much higher class of pitchers than Schilling and those guys weren't slam dunks to get in either. They both did get in, but I think their level is the benchmark for others, and I don't think Schilling was as good as they were.

Relax man nobody is analyzing you, you just aren’t making a great argument other than that he doesn’t “feel” like a HOFer to you.

You are in the minority if you think Schilling and Mussina (you called him borderline) are not HOF caliber. Your metrics just aren’t the metrics for what it actually takes to get into the HOF. FAR lesser pitchers have made the HOF.

On a side note: It is so much more difficult to be a “compiler” of stats than most think so I have never understood why that term is used derisively. If it was so easy then it would have been don’t more, part of being a great player is lasting and not flaming out like so many have.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

On a side note: It is so much more difficult to be a “compiler” of stats than most think so I have never understood why that term is used derisively. If it was so easy then it would have been don’t more, part of being a great player is lasting and not flaming out like so many have.

THIS!! I have never understood how keeping oneself in playing condition, and continuing to PRODUCE well enough to remain on a big league roster, is somehow a bad thing??? It's a results oriented game, and if you can't make the 25-man, you're out. Compilers are success stories.

[packs]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Relax man nobody is analyzing you, you just aren’t making a great argument other than that he doesn’t “feel” like a HOFer to you.

What's wrong with "feel"? Isn't feel a big reason players like Edgar Martinez and Vlad get in? If you look at B-R, none of Vlad's HOF WAR or JAWS figures measure up to averages but if you saw Vlad play, he felt like a HOFer, at least to me. I always felt like I was watching one. Larry Walker too.

Re: Schilling and compiling. The number I'm referring to is the 3,000 K's. It's a magic number for pitchers (except Clemens; CC and Verlander not yet eligible for voting). I understand all the reasons for him and the 3,000 K's I think is a big one for him, along with his postseason performance. I just didn't think he was a HOFer. It's fine with me if he does get in.