Proper action for a stolen package from a Buy/Sell/Trade transaction

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Eric72

As a seller, I've found it helpful to use the USPS website when packages go missing. Speaking with a postal employee is good. If you've developed a rapport with the Postmaster, that's a great person to ask for help. However, also consider this site:

https://www.usps.com/help/missing-mail.htm

A couple items I've mailed this year got "stuck" at a USPS facility for more than a week. When I used the website, the package got "knocked loose" within a day or two and arrived safely at its destination shortly thereafter.

Something to keep in mind - in my case, it's possible that having a USPS account online helped.

Posting this as a "general help" topic for sellers here. With regard to the OP, the missing satchel makes this case more complex than what I've dealt with.

The mail is so ridiculously slow right now but the OP said his branch manager thinks the package was stolen and a month later, its still lost.

The most troubling thing is this seller is choosing to ignore a buyer who has a rightful problem, especially when the seller has a history of this. Sellers should not have the right to ignore buyers when they have the buyers money in their pocket.

This site is great but really needs some kind of feedback system to protect members. If this buyer had read about the sellers previous problem, he could have chosen to pay for PayPal buyer protection.

[sportscardpete]

The seller has an obligation to get the card to the buyer. However, there’s no rule on the BST forum that states the item must be insured. I don’t think the seller owes you the money, but the right thing to do would be For him/her to refund you.

One of the reasons people use FF here is because it is a trusting group.

[facingthelake1188]

Let me first say thank you all very much for taking the time to read my long post and give me your honest feedback. I plan to respond to each of your questions/comments as time allows but let me quickly post a quick update. One veteran member was kind enough to send me this link from this past year detailing the same situation involving the same member. Since the member outs himself, I will just leave it up to whoever is interested to read and discover who this seller was. And maybe he will finally decide to reply to me...

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...t=lost+package

And Merry Christmas to you all. I am extremely grateful to have found this site with so many like minded collectors. Being a pre-war Yankees collector, I am so amazed by all the rare cards that are posted here. I look forward to posting some of my own personal favorites from my collection in the future.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

The seller has an obligation to get the card to the buyer. However, there’s no rule on the BST forum that states the item must be insured. I don’t think the seller owes you the money, but the right thing to do would be For him/her to refund you.

One of the reasons people use FF here is because it is a trusting group.

If the buyer paid, no shipping was mentioned and card not received, then the seller owes the buyer a refund. On at least this forum it is not debatable.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

The seller has an obligation to get the card to the buyer.

Maybe. Did the contract’s terms and conditions state shipped or delivered? These are two different things. If just shipped, the seller satisfied his “obligation” once he paid for shipping and the third-party shipper took possession.

If the contract’s terms stated delivered, the seller bears the risk of loss until the item is delivered. Thus, his obligation doesn’t end until the third-party carrier delivers the item.

The same rules that auction websites and credit card companies may have does not always apply across the board to transactions between two individuals with a non-secured or guaranteed payment method. People, however, forget this aspect.

The etiquette is to refund and move on.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

Maybe. Did the contract’s terms and conditions state shipped or delivered? These are two different things. If just shipped, the seller satisfied his “obligation” once he paid for shipping and the third-party shipper took possession.

If the contract’s terms stated delivered, the seller bears the risk of loss until the item is delivered. Thus, his obligation doesn’t end until the third-party carrier delivers the item.

The same rules that auction websites and credit card companies may have does not always apply across the board to transactions between two individuals with a non-secured or guaranteed payment method. People, however, forget this aspect.

The etiquette is to refund and move on.

I politely disagree on shipped vs delivered. To me they mean the same thing. I don't play the semantics games.

.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Leon

I politely disagree on shipped vs delivered. To me they mean the same thing. I don't play the semantics games.

I’m just trying to help educate and explain how some states’ laws address this exact issue. It’s not semantics. There is a legal difference between a shipping contract and a delivery one.

Your the site’s ultimate arbiter. So, if you say the site’s rule is for the seller to reimburse the buyer then that is the rule. I’ve always personally followed this rule selling on here anyways (although thankfully all my items arrived), because it’s not worth the hassle and reputation damage fighting a buyer.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

I’m just trying to help educate and explain how some states’ laws address this exact issue. It’s not semantics. There is a legal difference between a shipping contract and a delivery one.

Your the site’s ultimate arbiter. So, if you say the site’s rule is for the seller to reimburse the buyer then that is the rule. I’ve always personally followed this rule selling on here anyways (although thankfully all my items arrived), because it’s not worth the hassle and reputation damage fighting a buyer.

What happens when the item turns up after a refund has been issued?? Is there a rule for that scenario as well?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

What happens when the item turns up after a refund has been issued?? Is there a rule for that scenario as well?

Obviously the buyer then must pay.

That actually happened to me after I had received a refund through ebay. The card showed up after three months lol.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

I’m just trying to help educate and explain how some states’ laws address this exact issue. It’s not semantics. There is a legal difference between a shipping contract and a delivery one.

Your the site’s ultimate arbiter. So, if you say the site’s rule is for the seller to reimburse the buyer then that is the rule. I’ve always personally followed this rule selling on here anyways (although thankfully all my items arrived), because it’s not worth the hassle and reputation damage fighting a buyer.

I’m pretty sure it has been proven in the courts that a “basic” online sale is a destination contract by definition.

Either way, if you pull that card, legal or not....you’re not someone I want to deal with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by notfast

I’m pretty sure it has been proven in the courts that a “basic” online sale is a destination contract by definition.

Either way, if you pull that card, legal or not....you’re not someone I want to deal with.

Actually and we have discussed this several years ago,
Uniform Commercial Code, section 2-509. Unless there is a specific provision requiring the seller to deliver at a particular location (a so-called "destination contract"), risk of loss passes to the buyer when the seller delivers to the common carrier.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=carrier

But that said, who cares, people should do what's right.

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[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by notfast

I’m pretty sure it has been proven in the courts that a “basic” online sale is a destination contract by definition.

Either way, if you pull that card, legal or not....you’re not someone I want to deal with.

This is inaccurate. The majority rule is courts generally find a shipping contract absent express language to the contrary. Thus, the default/presumption is for a shipping only contract - not a delivery one.