Negro Leagues Recognized As Major

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by Mark17

You're right. Looking again at the index of Grant's book, Sam Jones also did it in 1959. So that makes 13 in 57 years, 5 doing it more than once.

I think my point stands - the black hitters seem to have been well ahead of the pitchers.

Not a strong take. Research the unwritten rules governing black pitchers in the early days of MLB integration.

[t206fix]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Not a strong take. Research the unwritten rules governing black pitchers in the early days of MLB integration.

Jason, would love to hear more about this. Where do I look?

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Jason, would love to hear more about this. Where do I look?

One example relates to belief that Black men weren’t cerebral enough to pitch, catch, or manage. Here is Bob Kendrick on the topic—

——-

“Historically, pitchers and catchers did not transition from the Negro Leagues,’’ Kendrick said. “There were great arms in the Negro Leagues, and we had great catchers from Josh Gibson to Roy Campanella, but that was considered a cerebral position. And the general consensus back then was that these men weren’t smart enough to play in the major leagues.

———

Same line of racist thinking limited Black Quarterbacks in football and managers/GMs in several sports.

Additionally, Black pitchers were hesitant to throw inside vs white batters out of fear their lives or careers would be at risk if they injured a white player.

[t206fix]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

One example relates to belief that Black men weren’t cerebral enough to pitch, catch, or manage. Here is Bob Kendrick on the topic—

——-

“Historically, pitchers and catchers did not transition from the Negro Leagues,’’ Kendrick said. “There were great arms in the Negro Leagues, and we had great catchers from Josh Gibson to Roy Campanella, but that was considered a cerebral position. And the general consensus back then was that these men weren’t smart enough to play in the major leagues.

———

Same line of racist thinking limited Black Quarterbacks in football and managers/GMs in several sports.

Additionally, Black pitchers were hesitant to throw inside vs white batters out of fear their lives or careers would be at risk if they injured a white player.

Thank you. I remember that bullshit from the 80s. "A black man can't quarterback."

PE : we about to watch the super bowl, we got a black quarter back, so step back.

[Scocs]

I was going to bring that point up about black pitchers and double standards. If a black quarterback wasn’t accepted until 1988, what makes you think a black man throwing a baseball 90 mph at a white man’s head would have been accepted in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Scocs

I was going to bring that point up about black pitchers and double standards. If a black quarterback wasn’t accepted until 1988, what makes you think a black man throwing a baseball 90 mph at a white man’s head would have been accepted in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s?

Gibby, who of course came along a whole decade later, related some stories about how he was excluded from meetings discussing how to pitch to the opposing team's lineup by Solly Hemus and perhaps others, the assumption being he wasn't smart enough to contribute. Unreal.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gibby, who of course came along a whole decade later, related some stories about how he was excluded from meetings discussing how to pitch to the opposing team's lineup by Solly Hemus and perhaps others, the assumption being he wasn't smart enough to contribute. Unreal.

Hemus was notorious for treating the black players like shit when he was the Cardinals’ manager, especially Gibson and Curt Flood. Years later he tried to apologize to both of them, but they neither forgave nor forgot. Hemus was a bigger prick than most, but racist attitudes like his were prevalent in the game into the 1960s and beyond.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Thank you. I remember that bullshit from the 80s. "A black man can't quarterback."

PE : we about to watch the super bowl, we got a black quarter back, so step back.

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

[71buc]

Nice article by Tom Boswell

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...negro-leagues/

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by howard38

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

Is that evidence of systemic racism, or is he just your common, garden variety idiot?

I hear people say ignorant things all the time, about all sorts of things. On the topic of Russ Wilson, he is undeniably very successful at his profession, he's paid quite well, he's wildly popular in Seattle, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy and very hard working. Personally, he's my favorite guy on that team.

That interception that lost the Super Bowl is 100% on the coach. Give the ball to The Beast, 3 times if you have to, and you win. But no, Sherman has to get cute and call a risky play.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Is that evidence of systemic racism, or is he just your common, garden variety idiot?

I hear people say ignorant things all the time, about all sorts of things. On the topic of Russ Wilson, he is undeniably very successful at his profession, he's paid quite well, he's wildly popular in Seattle, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy and very hard working. Personally, he's my favorite guy on that team.

That interception that lost the Super Bowl is 100% on the coach. Give the ball to The Beast, 3 times if you have to, and you win. But no, Sherman has to get cute and call a risky play.

Neither, just evidence that some people still think that way.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by howard38

Not just the 80's. After Russell Wilson's famous super bowl INT my former boss started off a statement with, "This is not racist, but...". Of course, I knew the next words out of his mouth would, in fact, be racist & he didn't disappoint finishing with "a black quarterback can't win a super bowl". Wilson himself had won it the previous season, but whatever.

I'll defend that call til the day I die. Besides the fact Lynch hadn't succeeded in any of those situations all year...Russ hesitated on the throw, threw it late, threw it inaccurately, and Ricardo Lockette ran his route half-speed and at the wrong angle. If EITHER guy executes properly, it's a touchdown.

[Exhibitman]

I started out skeptical of this whole thing but after reading the arguments against it on N54 I have changed my tune. I view it as an act of contrition on the part of MLB towards the men who were not enshrined in Cooperstown. They deserve respect as Major League players, not back of the bus status as Negro League players.

As far as parity goes, we routinely ignore the statistics from the 19th century game, especially every season pitching stat, because it was a totally different game played under totally different conditions. Designating Artie Wilson as a .400 hitter doesn't diminish Ted Williams one iota.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I'll defend that call til the day I die. Besides the fact Lynch hadn't succeeded in any of those situations all year...Russ hesitated on the throw, threw it late, threw it inaccurately, and Ricardo Lockette ran his route half-speed and at the wrong angle. If EITHER guy executes properly, it's a touchdown.

It's first and goal at the 5 yard line. They give it to Lynch and he gains 4. Now it's second and goal from the one. I'm thinking, if Lynch and that O-line can get 4 yards on the first play down there, they can get one more with 3 more stabs at it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I'll defend that call til the day I die. Besides the fact Lynch hadn't succeeded in any of those situations all year...Russ hesitated on the throw, threw it late, threw it inaccurately, and Ricardo Lockette ran his route half-speed and at the wrong angle. If EITHER guy executes properly, it's a touchdown.

Come on, man. The best running back in football, ball on the one yard line, and you're defending a pass play? Your own analysis shows the problem -- too many things can go wrong.