Wagner Auction

[Tao_Moko]

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

[Rhotchkiss]

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known.

Yabba Dabba Doo!

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Just joking around a little with you Ryan, but you already have the T206 Wagner...and all those other rare ones.

[hcv123]

As noted in a number of posts - there are many cards even of Wagner (Look at Ryans post for a nice selection!) that are much rarer (in lower supply) than the T206. That said, the one thing that the T206 set and the Wagner, in particular, have over all those other cards is exponentially greater demand! So there may be 57 or 67 or 80 Wagners, but there are many more than that number of people apparently with both the desire and the means to acquire it and the price continues to be driven up.
Many of the super rare (less than 5 known copies) are so obscure most collectors don't bother looking = lower demand and hence lower price relative to the T206 Wagner.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Not too shabby, Ryan, but I'd be really impressed if your Wags collage included a T214 Victory Tobacco.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Not too shabby, Ryan, but I'd be really impressed if your Wags collage included a T214 Victory Tobacco.

If I found one, no doubt PSA would grade it as authentic (spoiler alert - T214 Wagner does not exist); very few T cards of wagner exist.

Totally OT- here is a cool article about how/why Wagner and Plank are both super scarce on tobacco card issues even though they were mega stars

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spo...us-wagner/amp/

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

Wow, very nice, is that Copper Plate in a full book?

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Wow, very nice, is that Copper Plate in a full book?

yes (well, almost full book, was missing 4 of them I had to find separately to complete, which I managed to do!).

[puckpaul]

my book is led off by this Dummy Hoy. (!). the Copper Plates have Anson, and Ewing, and some other notables, the Sporting News adds Ed Delehanty and Cy Young among many other greats. they are my favorite sets.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

you are missing two, his rookie Natl copper plate, and his Sporting News following closely. my favorite Wagners such beautiful imagery...are their any other cards/premiums with written descriptions from the playing days even?

I never understood the copper plates. What exactly are they? Do you have a link to a description/write-up/article? I have looked at a few sporting news over the year - tough to find not ripped (yours is great looking), but I don’t like that BVG is the only company that slabs them. As incompetent as PSA can be (slabbing a clear 1915 CJ reprint), I view BVG as being on par with GAI and I don’t want anything in a BVG slab.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I never understood the copper plates. What exactly are they? Do you have a link to a description/write-up/article? I have looked at a few sporting news over the year - tough to find not ripped (yours is great looking), but I don’t like that BVG is the only company that slabs them. As incompetent as PSA can be (slabbing a clear 1915 CJ reprint), I view BVG as being on par with GAI and I don’t want anything in a BVG slab.

Ryan, here's a link (https://oldcardboard.com/m/ncpc/ncpc.asp?cardsetID=1241). Basically they were the predecessor to the M101-1 set issued about a year or two earlier. You can tell them apart from the M101-1 as they make no reference to the Sporting News. Instead of being a supplement, they were issued as a bound book (hence my question earlier and why they will have the two holes on the side). Full books are quite rare and unfortunately I believe a dealer destroyed one probably 2-3 years ago to sell them individually. BVG is the only one to grade them as they are too big even for SGC/PSA's holder (maybe not the newest PSA holder?).

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks DJ

[Throttlesteer]

I would take it over all the Mike Trout super double refractor triple lenticular rookie patch auto die cut 1/1s getting similar money. Nothing against modern, but as soon as the printing press stamps a number and has a current player autograph it, its worth a tin. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I never understood the copper plates. What exactly are they? Do you have a link to a description/write-up/article? I have looked at a few sporting news over the year - tough to find not ripped (yours is great looking), but I don’t like that BVG is the only company that slabs them. As incompetent as PSA can be (slabbing a clear 1915 CJ reprint), I view BVG as being on par with GAI and I don’t want anything in a BVG slab.

this article explains it somewhat. seems like you could get them in a full booklet, or also they came in a larger size prints in smaller groups? I have the larger sized Kid Nichols...

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/a...late-portraits

I agree that the lack of grading has hurt the "value" for collectors, but I don't care much when the pieces are that large and beautiful. they do look a lot better when not beat up of course. most of mine are in excellent shape, a few are rough (would replace if I could find them better).

it doesn't detract for me if this image of Cy isn't graded, but I guess I do hope that someday PSA does grade them and finds holders, I understand that many collectors want to know its authentic and what they would grade.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

+1.

[Sean]

When I began collecting 20 years ago I was told" No one has ever lost money on a Wagner." Twenty years later this has always been true.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

Incredible collection of Wagners...but I would rather have all of them instead of just the T206 Wagner. The T206 Wagner kinda bores me (gasp! heresy!)...it would be cool if more vintage cards shared its intense spotlight amongst the general population.

Brian

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here are some of my rarest Wagners- some are the only ones known, and many less than 5 known. I would rather have the t206 than all of these combined

I'd rather have my three than tying up so much money in one card.

1906 FAN CRAZE HONUS WAGNER PSA-8.jpg1911 M116 Sporting Life- Honus Wagner PSA-4.jpgATTACH]425208[/ATTACH]

[clydepepper]

puckpaul - Love your Hoy and Nichols.

But Dang, Leon - THAT BABE is a show-stopper!

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

+1000

I love vintage but this is 100% fact.

[ruth-gehrig]

What was the previous sales record for a PSA 1 AND what did this example sale for the last time it sold??

[Powell]

I made thre times on my Wagner and it’s up about 30% since I sold it..

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Like I said, I'm "probably wrong" but $1.4 for a card missing a corner and creases through the face? It's getting to the point that you could buy an actual work of art by a master(1/1) for a similar amount. I think we forget that this is print advertising and not "rare". It literally was printed , cut from a sheet and distributed in a pack of smokes.

The distinction between "rare" and "scarce" needs to be stated, as these words are often interchanged, which can be incorrect and misleading.

A card like the T206 Wagner is SOMEWHAT rare - dependent on what you're using as guidelines for "rare"...
while the card can rightfully be called EXPONENTIALLY scarce, as the number of individuals who covet an example - which is forever increasing - far exceed the known existing specimens.

[drcy]

Yes. Rarity is a measure of supply. Scarcity is a measure of demand versus supply. Scarcity is fairly represented in price value. The Mickey Mantle 52 Topps isn't rare, but its book values shows that is definitely scarce.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

The distinction between "rare" and "scarce" needs to be stated, as these words are often interchanged, which can be incorrect and misleading.

A card like the T206 Wagner is SOMEWHAT rare - dependent on what you're using as guidelines for "rare"...
while the card can rightfully be called EXPONENTIALLY scarce, as the number of individuals who covet an example - which is forever increasing - far exceed the known existing specimens.

[Tao_Moko]

Here are actual dictionary definitions:

Rare - (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.

Scarce - (especially of food, money, or some other resource) insufficient for the demand.

By definition they are not very distinguishable. Easy to say Wagner is both rare and scarce. My use of "rare" is specific to our hobby as I've always understood and best explained in David's explanation below. However, we've never quantified the two as a hobby standard. I would consider the Doyle to be rare and the Wagner as scarce but there is no standard to support my assignment.

Originally Posted by drcy

Yes. Rarity is a measure of supply. Scarcity is a measure of demand versus supply. Scarcity is fairly represented in price value. The Mickey Mantle 52 Topps isn't rare, but its book values shows that is definitely scarce.