Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[cammb]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Pedro in '99-'00 and Maddux in '94-'95 did things over a two-year stretch that no one else has in the live ball era, and only Bob Gibson's '68 season could match for even one year. There isn't enough mainstream focus on ERA+ or those guys' seasons then (as they pitched in a pinball game) would be remembered with the same reverence as Gibson's 1.12.

It's tough for me to consider much what any pitcher (or hitter, for that matter) did before 1920. Walter Johnson was clearly the best out there during the last decade of the dead ball era, but it was such a different game when everyone was hitting a voit ball from gym class. And his numbers during the 1920s (when he was in his 30s) were very good, but nothing legendary and a clear step below what Grove and plenty of others did when they were the same age in the live ball era.

Excuse me, did you happen to notice the last two years of Koufax??? To say that no one could match what Martinez did n 99-00 is absurd. Koufax crushes him in every category.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by cammb

Excuse me, did you happen to notice the last two years of Koufax??? To say that no one could match what Martinez did n 99-00 is absurd. Koufax crushes him in every category.

No, he doesn't. Or even close. Koufax had an almost identical ERA in his final two years. Pedro's WHIP was better in '99-'00. Pitching in Fenway at the height of the steroid years.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

No, he doesn't. Or even close. Koufax had an almost identical ERA in his final two years. Pedro's WHIP was better in '99-'00. Pitching in Fenway at the height of the steroid years.

"No he doesn't or even close". OK lets see if his even close: Koufax had more wins, better era, games started, complete games, shutouts, innings pitched, strikeouts . You are right, Pedroo had a better whip.


Y

[CMIZ5290]

There has been a lot of great replies and thoughts to other pitchers, and it's been a fun thread. A lot of my opinion came from key, first ballot HOFers that said Koufax was nearly impossible to hit against in his final 5-6 years of his career, and not just his well known and obvious stats that he had. There are not any other HOFers out there that got into the Hall at age 35 except Koufax. My final thought again is this, in peak and optimum situations, where everything is equal, I'll take him against a strong left handed hitting club, and I would take Bob Gibson against a strong right handed hitting club.... There you have it

[cammb]

I think his induction into the Hall of Fame (the youngest player ever to be inducted) says it all. The writers evidently ignored his first six years and judged him on his last five years. That was a tribute to his dominance

[Shoeless Moe]

No mention of Koufax being a pussy and hanging it up early?


And if you are picking Koufax for your one game, better make sure it doesn't fall on Yom Kippur.....or you better get the bullpen up.


The Big Unit all the way!

[Koufax32fan]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

No mention of Koufax being a pussy and hanging it up early?


And if you are picking Koufax for your one game, better make sure it doesn't fall on Yom Kippur.....or you better get the bullpen up.


The Big Unit all the way!

I really hope this was all typed in jest. Please say it is so.

You should read a good biography of Koufax. Jane Leavy's is a good start. Koufax was in so much pain - and his teammates could see it - that they were amazed he was able to keep pitching at all. This was before Tommy John surgery. He used so much capiscum that smelled so bad that other players wouldn't want to be around him when he applied it. (Capsicum is what gives peppers their heat.) His left arm was getting malformed from the arthritis. If Sandy was willing, I would wager anything that you would be the "pussy" if he pitched to you, today - and, he is 85 years old.

As for Yom Kippur, suffice it to say that Drysdale asked Alston if he didn't wish that he was Jewish too after his outing. Baseball is important, but not that important. Let's give Koufax credit for being true to himself.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

No mention of Koufax being a pussy and hanging it up early?


And if you are picking Koufax for your one game, better make sure it doesn't fall on Yom Kippur.....or you better get the bullpen up.


The Big Unit all the way!

delete, just not worth it.....