Will this stock market madness affect cards?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

Since the center of the problem (ground zero in the US) is New York, how much of the responsibility lies with the mayor of that city, and the governor of that state? How prepared were they? What contingencies, and backup plans, did they have in place? Certainly New York is a wealthy state, and with high tax rates too. One would think they would have been well stocked with supplies and equipment, and with supply chains established in case of emergency.

New York, since September 2001, has known it was the prime target of terrorists. So they had the money, and the reason to expect the unexpected on a potentially massive scale. Bio-terrorism was always a possibility. How much responsibility lies with governor Cuomo?

And now that he has opposed quarantining his state, how much responsibility does he own, when frightened New Yorkers flee to other states, spreading this virus, and death, across the entire country?

Just curious as to your thoughts.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Since the center of the problem (ground zero in the US) is New York, how much of the responsibility lies with the mayor of that city, and the governor of that state? How prepared were they? What contingencies, and backup plans, did they have in place? Certainly New York is a wealthy state, and with high tax rates too. One would think they would have been well stocked with supplies and equipment, and with supply chains established in case of emergency.

New York, since September 2001, has known it was the prime target of terrorists. So they had the money, and the reason to expect the unexpected on a potentially massive scale. Bio-terrorism was always a possibility. How much responsibility lies with governor Cuomo?

And now that he has opposed quarantining his state, how much responsibility does he own, when frightened New Yorkers flee to other states, spreading this virus, and death, across the entire country?

Just curious as to your thoughts.

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

So Cuomo doesn't need to care about his inaction spreading disease and death to NJ, PA, CT, etc? Wow, sounds like a real patriot.

Cuomo could do the right thing for the country, Trump could over-ride Cuomo's selfish decision, and I'm not interested in debating what percentage of blame each shares. What I object to is some people, perhaps not you, trying to lay blame purely across political lines. This thing is new to everyone. Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people (including some of us, who don't isolate well, or take precautions, or don't test when we have symptoms.) It would be better if we could just pull together and pretend it isn't an election year.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So Cuomo doesn't need to care about his inaction spreading disease and death to NJ, PA, CT, etc? Wow, sounds like a real patriot.

Cuomo could do the right thing for the country, Trump could over-ride Cuomo's selfish decision, and I'm not interested in debating what percentage of blame each shares. What I object to is some people, perhaps not you, trying to lay blame purely across political lines. This thing is new to everyone. Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people (including some of us, who don't isolate well, or take precautions, or don't test when we have symptoms.) It would be better if we could just pull together and pretend it isn't an election year.

It has nothing to do with politics. We send a man to the White House to make the tough decisions that Governors don’t want to make. If that person is too scared to lead, he should step aside

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people.

And will be admitted to and learned from by all but one, who shall go unnamed, and who instead will continue to blame others, lie about the state of things, pout if people do not kiss his ring, ignore experts in favor of sycophants, and, most of all, make sure it is all about him being in front of a camera.

[Dpeck100]

These Tyson's did great. The PSA 8 had 19 bidders and the PSA 9 20. Both are the UK back and not the actual rookie version with the Italian back.

So far in the stuff I collect prices are strong and in some cases even higher than a month ago.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/14355976533...torefresh=true


https://www.ebay.com/itm/40217252299...torefresh=true


Edit: A raw 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A set with terrible presentation and not overly nice key cards just went for $900. Nice!!!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

These Tyson's did great. The PSA 8 had 19 bidders and the PSA 9 20. Both are the UK back and not the actual rookie version with the Italian back.

So far in the stuff I collect prices are strong and in some cases even higher than a month ago.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/14355976533...torefresh=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40217252299...torefresh=true


Edit: A raw 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A set with terrible presentation and not overly nice key cards just went for $900. Nice!!!

I find it hard to believe, as someone in finance, that you think that posts like these are persuasive. This is akin to someone claiming that equities are performing well because xyz microcap is up 8% YTD. You would be laughed off any finance blogs for making a case like that.

Listen I get that you collect and are completely vested in pumping wrestling cards, I and appreciate your collection, but I’d be surprised if there were more then 50 hardcore wrestling card collectors. It is niche of a niche, a microscopic piece of the overall card market that tells us literally nothing about card prices.

If anyone is looking for a better data point, Acuna updates are selling at close to half their pre virus price. $300 down to $160 with each recent sale going lower. This is a heavily traded card - 15k cards graded by PSA alone - with 12k PSA 10s. Owned by thousands of collectors and is considered an investment grade card. Cards like this tell the story on where the market is going / is currently. If anyone actually cares.

And VCP in April and May is going to be fascinating. No asset class - and I cringe labeling most sportscards as assets - is going to be immune to 2 trillion is GDP disappearing and 8-12% unemployment. I just don’t see the hobby’s widest traded cards holding up to what looks like an economic blood bath.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by japhi

I find it hard to believe, as someone in finance, that you think that posts like these are persuasive. This is akin to someone claiming that equities are performing well because xyz microcap is up 8% YTD. You would be laughed off any finance blogs for making a case like that.

Listen I get that you collect and are completely vested in pumping wrestling cards, I and appreciate your collection, but I’d be surprised if there were more then 50 hardcore wrestling card collectors. It is niche of a niche, a microscopic piece of the overall card market that tells us literally nothing about card prices.

If anyone is looking for a better data point, Acuna updates are selling at close to half their pre virus price. $300 down to $160 with each recent sale going lower. This is a heavily traded card - 15k cards graded by PSA alone - with 12k PSA 10s. Owned by thousands of collectors and is considered an investment grade card. Cards like this tell the story on where the market is going / is currently. If anyone actually cares.

And VCP in April and May is going to be fascinating. No asset class - and I cringe labeling most sportscards as assets - is going to be immune to 2 trillion is GDP disappearing and 8-12% unemployment. I just don’t see the hobby’s widest traded cards holding up to what looks like an economic blood bath.

I am not trying to convince anyone that the market is going to be okay. For ten years on message boards most have taken the other side of my opinions so it is really irrelevant. I am just happy to see the results have been tremendous for what I own. I listed four lots on Sunday and three are sold and the fourth I countered an offer.

It isn't like any of us on here have any overall power to support the market. Loads of collectors have never even read a message board post.

You are correct I am fully vested in seeing positive results but I would certainly say damn these auctions did horrible had they. I watched them until the end and was very pleased how strong they finished.

There is no doubt my little segment is just that little but it has continued to climb the wall of worry for years. Daily when I check the completed sales I am thrilled to see consistent turnover. I sat through some major pullbacks in this area early on and so watching them zoom to new highs with a larger bidding list is encouraging.

Time will tell what happens to the overall market and if any of us truly had the crystal ball we probably wouldn't be posting here.

I got in so early on wrestling and Mike Tyson that if they drop I can't say I would be happy but the spread between my cost basis and current prices is so wide I wouldn't lose any sleep. If they collapse the good news is I don't need to sell and don't owe a dime to anyone so life will go on.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

And will be admitted to and learned from by all but one, who shall go unnamed, and who instead will continue to blame others, lie about the state of things, pout if people do not kiss his ring, ignore experts in favor of sycophants, and, most of all, make sure it is all about him being in front of a camera.

This. Which is absolutely pathetic for a purported "leader."

[rats60]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

We can't stop people crossing the border with Mexico. Trying to close the borders of New York is impossible.

[ronniehatesjazz]

I know these are crazy times but isn't there a rule about no politics in this forum?

[packs]

It is far too late for any kind of quarantine. By this time next week the virus will have made its way around the country attached to people who are already where they are.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

I know these are crazy times but isn't there a rule about no politics in this forum?

I not taking any side

but i would think if someone were to criticize Trump, they also are saying that Hillary and/or Biden would be great. If they are not saying that, then its pretty empty to just say how things are bad.

If all of them are bad, really no reason to bad mouth any of them. Whats the point of criticizing with no solution.

[gawaintheknight]

This won't be a popular attitude here, but Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better. She has experience with healthcare policy, she has experience in the Senate, she has experience as Secretary of State, she has experience seeing how a non-dysfunctional White House works. All of that would be helpful, and Trump has none of it. She would not have cut funding for epidemic preparedness or eliminated government agencies that it now turns out are crucial for fighting the epidemic. She would have used the contingency plans the Obama administration created for dealing with epidemics rather than ignoring them and pretending everything was fine for months while the time to act decisively went by. She would have hired competent people and let them do their jobs. She would be actually trying to address the crisis instead of trying to threaten governors she didn't like and tweeting about how high her TV ratings were and trying to bully reporters who asked questions she didn't like. I could go on, but just on those points alone, there's a huge difference.

So, absolutely she would have been a lot better. She was one of the most qualified candidates in the history of the presidency, and she lost to one of the least qualified candidates, and, as they say, elections have consequences.

I'm sure there's a bunch of people here who are now never going to do business with me again, but that's fine.

Ted

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I not taking any side

but i would think if someone were to criticize Trump, they also are saying that Hillary and/or Biden would be great. If they are not saying that, then its pretty empty to just say how things are bad.

If all of them are bad, really no reason to bad mouth any of them. Whats the point of criticizing with no solution.

[gawaintheknight]

Instead we get this idiocy:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/mypil...232505593.html

Ted

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight

This won't be a popular attitude here, but Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better. She has experience with healthcare policy, she has experience in the Senate, she has experience as Secretary of State, she has experience seeing how a non-dysfunctional White House works. All of that would be helpful, and Trump has none of it. She would not have cut funding for epidemic preparedness or eliminated government agencies that it now turns out are crucial for fighting the epidemic. She would have used the contingency plans the Obama administration created for dealing with epidemics rather than ignoring them and pretending everything was fine for months while the time to act decisively went by. She would have hired competent people and let them do their jobs. She would be actually trying to address the crisis instead of trying to threaten governors she didn't like and tweeting about how high her TV ratings were and trying to bully reporters who asked questions she didn't like. I could go on, but just on those points alone, there's a huge difference.

So, absolutely she would have been a lot better. She was one of the most qualified candidates in the history of the presidency, and she lost to one of the least qualified candidates, and, as they say, elections have consequences.

I'm sure there's a bunch of people here who are now never going to do business with me again, but that's fine.

Ted

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight

Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better. She has experience with healthcare policy, she has experience in the Senate, she has experience as Secretary of State, she has experience seeing how a non-dysfunctional White House works. All of that would be helpful, and Trump has none of it. She would not have cut funding for epidemic preparedness or eliminated government agencies that it now turns out are crucial for fighting the epidemic. She would have used the contingency plans the Obama administration created for dealing with epidemics rather than ignoring them and pretending everything was fine for months while the time to act decisively went by. She would have hired competent people and let them do their jobs. She would be actually trying to address the crisis instead of trying to threaten governors she didn't like and tweeting about how high her TV ratings were and trying to bully reporters who asked questions she didn't like. I could go on, but just on those points alone, there's a huge difference.

So, absolutely she would have been a lot better. She was one of the most qualified candidates in the history of the presidency, and she lost to one of the least qualified candidates, and, as they say, elections have consequences.



Ted

Best advice my stepfather ever gave me, ‘Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.’

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight

This won't be a popular attitude here, but Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better.

You are 100% correct. Hillary would have handled this pandemic a lot better than Trump has because Republicans would have supported her as President, whereas democrats will not support Trump.

[drcy]

Putting aside moral debate, for the economy's sake itself you have to fix the coronas problem before the economy will rebound. If people are dying and scared to go to work and go the store, co-workers are getting the disease, the medical system is overloaded with patients, the economy will be damaged and sick even if everyone is allowed to go to work and mingle in society.

Thus, I think the "Let everyone go back to work and social life to save the economy" is an incorrect economic argument anyway.