Will this stock market madness affect cards?

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

Let me answer this question as a person who has been a people manager for over 25 years.

Yes, I am responsible for my subordinates actions.

It is my responsibility to staff my organization with competent people, to make sure they understand what is considered a successful outcome, to make sure they have the tools and training needed to succeed, and to establish processes and metrics that allow me to ensure they are succeeding.

And get this: if I go to my boss and say "because of all we’ve done, the risk to the companies products remains very low. … When you have 15 defects, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done" but then, all of sudden, we have shipped over 122,000 products with defects and continue to ship more each day, I am not going to give myself a score of 10 out of 10. I may not be actually assembling the products, but I am responsible and I deserve to lose my job.

[ZiggerZagger]

Against my better judgment I'm going to make a quick comment and ghost out. Folks can spend their time debating this as they wish.

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

We also know that the rest of the country is just days/a week or 2 behind NY. No area of the U.S. is going to be fully spared.

But the fact that "Blame" is even a word in people's vocabulary right now is so saddening.

There are going to be human experiences ahead which have typically only been reserved for wartime, but instead are going to be lived by everyone in our society.

This needs to be a time to come together, get our communities strong and united, and brace for what's to come.

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

We're going to find out what America is made of in the coming weeks, and I personally think and hope that it's better than what is reflected in our current politics.

.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.


.

I beg to differ...

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

I agree.

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

I disagree. We are probably still near the beginning of this pandemic. Waiting to criticize and "blame" individuals until the end will be too late for those who die in the meantime because of ineptitude, incompetence, and ignorance. Ignorance or ineptitude or incompetence etc needs to be called out whether it's "willful" or not. Place blame now to hopefully get corrective action taken before the "dust settles." If you're sailing in the ocean and the ship is meandering aimlessly around, do you wait until you eventually hit some shore before you replace the navigator, helmsman, or whoever is responsible? No. You replace the responsible person so that you can set a straight course to the port you actually are trying to get to. It's not about "placing blame," it's about setting the proper course so people don't die who otherwise would live.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

I really appreciate what you and all others in the health care sector are doing and preparing to do for the rest of us. I'd hope this is a universal sentiment, and that all others consider the risks you are or will be taking when making their own decisions.

However, I know some may not fully appreciate that by minimizing the feedback of experts like Fauci, they are likely putting people like you, then by default everyone else at greater risk if/when this truly peaks.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

Against my better judgment I'm going to make a quick comment and ghost out. Folks can spend their time debating this as they wish.

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

We also know that the rest of the country is just days/a week or 2 behind NY. No area of the U.S. is going to be fully spared.

But the fact that "Blame" is even a word in people's vocabulary right now is so saddening.

There are going to be human experiences ahead which have typically only been reserved for wartime, but instead are going to be lived by everyone in our society.

This needs to be a time to come together, get our communities strong and united, and brace for what's to come.

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

We're going to find out what America is made of in the coming weeks, and I personally think and hope that it's better than what is reflected in our current politics.

.

Thank you for the great post and what you are doing, stay safe!

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

If someone I hire makes a mistake large enough to kill Americans, yes. You better believe it.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If someone I hire makes a mistake large enough to kill Americans, yes. You better believe it.

In my example you are the employee. Learn to own your own mistakes.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

In my example you are the employee. Learn to own your own mistakes.

Yeah, same point. If a mistake I made kills thousands of Americans, you bet there would be hell to pay at the higher levels.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Yeah, same point. If a mistake I made kills thousands of Americans, you bet there would be hell to pay at the higher levels.

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

Then Lincoln should've fired US Grant. For that matter, Lincoln shouldn't have been re-elected in 1864 (meaning, McClellan wins and the South maintains slavery.)

Costly mistakes were made in WW2. Should FDR have been voted out. or should Eisenhower have been fired? Should Obama and Hillary been tossed from office over their Benghazi bungling?

You can't judge e person's decisions based on what perfect would've been. This pandemic is a new thing, and like it or not, there is a learning curve for everyone.

[gawaintheknight]

It may be new, but lots of people - qualified, talented, educated, smart people - knew that something like it was inevitable and prepared reports and plans for what to do. There were government agencies in place to handle it, until Trump got rid of them. Trump ignored all of the people who knew what was going on, and said it wasn't a big deal, and then turned things over to Mike Pence whose previous experience with disease outbreaks was causing one when he was governor of Indiana.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...na/4890988002/

Here's an analogy: suppose you got elected mayor of a town, and the town has a river running through it. The river has never flooded because of the system of dikes and levees in the area. So you decide to cut the budget for maintaining the flood control system, because, hey, the river's never flooded, and then you fire the guy who runs the agency that's in charge of responding to floods, because, hey, the river's never flooded. All the disaster preparedness people tell you that's a bad idea, but you ignore them because they're part of the deep state and you know the river never floods and no one knows more about weather than you do.

Over time, the flood control system deteriorates because there's no funding and no one in charge. Then, later, the weather people tell you that it's going to rain heavily upstream of your town in a few days and the river's going to flood, and you should read the report the last mayor had prepared about what to do if there's a flood. You ignore them, and tell the townspeople that it's only a few drops of rain, nothing to worry about. The rain starts to fall, and the river's rising, and you say to the townspeople, oh, it's risen before, it's going to go down again, there's nothing to worry about, and by the way the stock market is starting to look really good to you. Meanwhile the flood control system is failing because you cut the funding for repairs, and the water's still rising. And all the experts are telling you to evacuate the town, or at least try to repair the flood control system, or put up sandbags on the river, and the weather people are telling you more rain's coming....and you do nothing. Finally the flood happens, and everything's under six feet of water, and lots of people drown, and you say "Gosh, this has never happened before, no one could have known this would happen." You also say "No, I don't take responsibility at all," when someone asks you if you take responsibility for what happened. (That's a direct quote from Trump, by the way).

The proper response of the townspeople should be to kick you out of office and run you out of town on a rail after tarring and feathering you.

Ted

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then Lincoln should've fired US Grant. For that matter, Lincoln shouldn't have been re-elected in 1864 (meaning, McClellan wins and the South maintains slavery.)

Costly mistakes were made in WW2. Should FDR have been voted out. or should Eisenhower have been fired? Should Obama and Hillary been tossed from office over their Benghazi bungling?

You can't judge e person's decisions based on what perfect would've been. This pandemic is a new thing, and like it or not, there is a learning curve for everyone.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

You're missing the point..

Of course people at all levels will be held responsible and there will be blame passed to them, but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is in charge and takes responsibility for his actions (or inactions) that allowed this to happen.

Did everyone see this coming? No. Was this completely unavoidable? No. There are questions that people rightfully have that our leaders will need to answer to understand why this happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Donald Trump said that I will be able to go to a packed church on Easter, now he says I need to stay inside for another month. He was obviously wrong, he messed up. What happened? Did he not listen to his advisors? Has he been hiring the wrong people? Has he been working off of bad information? Was he just trying to be optimistic? This is a small example of the hundreds (if not thousands) of mistakes he has made over the past couple months regarding this pandemic. He needs to take responsibility for them and explain why he keeps getting it wrong.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

You're missing the point..

Of course people at all levels will be held responsible and there will be blame passed to them, but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is in charge and takes responsibility for his actions (or inactions) that allowed this to happen.

Did everyone see this coming? No. Was this completely unavoidable? No. There are questions that people rightfully have that our leaders will need to answer to understand why this happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Donald Trump said that I will be able to go to a packed church on Easter, now he says I need to stay inside for another month. He was obviously wrong, he messed up. What happened? Did he not listen to his advisors? Has he been hiring the wrong people? Has he been working off of bad information? Was he just trying to be optimistic? This is a small example of the hundreds (if not thousands) of mistakes he has made over the past couple months regarding this pandemic. He needs to take responsibility for them and explain why he keeps getting it wrong.

I think without being political there are some things that everyone gets wrong. I am sure there are fields of science or other area where there is a clear leader of the field. If that leader makes a decision that later looks wrong but every other leader in the field agreed with their decision at the time, i think you got cut some slack. Also if 50 say one thing and 50 say another. You are only going to be 50 percent right and how can you blame someone if it turns out wrong when the decision was based on 50/50 leader of the field intel.

Not saying applies in any specific case, but it appears some people think that if someone was wrong they should get fired etc.....decisions are not made in a vacuum..