Will this stock market madness affect cards?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

The guy at the top takes some of the responsibility and should not take all of the blame. There are many other people to blame and those other people should be held responsible.
Jason

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

Jason, is that just like the Astros? What happened to the owner?

From what I recall the Manager & GM are the 2 who took the blame and got the axe, not the guy at the top.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

Let me answer this question as a person who has been a people manager for over 25 years.

Yes, I am responsible for my subordinates actions.

It is my responsibility to staff my organization with competent people, to make sure they understand what is considered a successful outcome, to make sure they have the tools and training needed to succeed, and to establish processes and metrics that allow me to ensure they are succeeding.

And get this: if I go to my boss and say "because of all we’ve done, the risk to the companies products remains very low. … When you have 15 defects, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done" but then, all of sudden, we have shipped over 122,000 products with defects and continue to ship more each day, I am not going to give myself a score of 10 out of 10. I may not be actually assembling the products, but I am responsible and I deserve to lose my job.

[ZiggerZagger]

Against my better judgment I'm going to make a quick comment and ghost out. Folks can spend their time debating this as they wish.

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

We also know that the rest of the country is just days/a week or 2 behind NY. No area of the U.S. is going to be fully spared.

But the fact that "Blame" is even a word in people's vocabulary right now is so saddening.

There are going to be human experiences ahead which have typically only been reserved for wartime, but instead are going to be lived by everyone in our society.

This needs to be a time to come together, get our communities strong and united, and brace for what's to come.

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

We're going to find out what America is made of in the coming weeks, and I personally think and hope that it's better than what is reflected in our current politics.

.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.


.

I beg to differ...

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

I agree.

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

I disagree. We are probably still near the beginning of this pandemic. Waiting to criticize and "blame" individuals until the end will be too late for those who die in the meantime because of ineptitude, incompetence, and ignorance. Ignorance or ineptitude or incompetence etc needs to be called out whether it's "willful" or not. Place blame now to hopefully get corrective action taken before the "dust settles." If you're sailing in the ocean and the ship is meandering aimlessly around, do you wait until you eventually hit some shore before you replace the navigator, helmsman, or whoever is responsible? No. You replace the responsible person so that you can set a straight course to the port you actually are trying to get to. It's not about "placing blame," it's about setting the proper course so people don't die who otherwise would live.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

I really appreciate what you and all others in the health care sector are doing and preparing to do for the rest of us. I'd hope this is a universal sentiment, and that all others consider the risks you are or will be taking when making their own decisions.

However, I know some may not fully appreciate that by minimizing the feedback of experts like Fauci, they are likely putting people like you, then by default everyone else at greater risk if/when this truly peaks.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

Against my better judgment I'm going to make a quick comment and ghost out. Folks can spend their time debating this as they wish.

As a physician, this is a really scary time for myself, for my family, and my 70-year old parents and in-laws. I have already been asked to do things that I am not trained for, and may not have proper protection while doing them.

We also know that the rest of the country is just days/a week or 2 behind NY. No area of the U.S. is going to be fully spared.

But the fact that "Blame" is even a word in people's vocabulary right now is so saddening.

There are going to be human experiences ahead which have typically only been reserved for wartime, but instead are going to be lived by everyone in our society.

This needs to be a time to come together, get our communities strong and united, and brace for what's to come.

There isn't anyone to blame for a Pandemic, no country or individual.

If there is willful ignorance that leads to people unnecessarily dying, then be sure that Blame should and will be handed out to those individuals. But please consider saving it for once the dust has settled.

We're going to find out what America is made of in the coming weeks, and I personally think and hope that it's better than what is reflected in our current politics.

.

Thank you for the great post and what you are doing, stay safe!

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

So Jason say you are at work and you mess up doing your job. So your Boss is only responsible for your mistake as he or she is the leader and not you?

If someone I hire makes a mistake large enough to kill Americans, yes. You better believe it.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

If someone I hire makes a mistake large enough to kill Americans, yes. You better believe it.

In my example you are the employee. Learn to own your own mistakes.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

In my example you are the employee. Learn to own your own mistakes.

Yeah, same point. If a mistake I made kills thousands of Americans, you bet there would be hell to pay at the higher levels.

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Yeah, same point. If a mistake I made kills thousands of Americans, you bet there would be hell to pay at the higher levels.

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

Then Lincoln should've fired US Grant. For that matter, Lincoln shouldn't have been re-elected in 1864 (meaning, McClellan wins and the South maintains slavery.)

Costly mistakes were made in WW2. Should FDR have been voted out. or should Eisenhower have been fired? Should Obama and Hillary been tossed from office over their Benghazi bungling?

You can't judge e person's decisions based on what perfect would've been. This pandemic is a new thing, and like it or not, there is a learning curve for everyone.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

You're missing the point..

Of course people at all levels will be held responsible and there will be blame passed to them, but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is in charge and takes responsibility for his actions (or inactions) that allowed this to happen.

Did everyone see this coming? No. Was this completely unavoidable? No. There are questions that people rightfully have that our leaders will need to answer to understand why this happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Donald Trump said that I will be able to go to a packed church on Easter, now he says I need to stay inside for another month. He was obviously wrong, he messed up. What happened? Did he not listen to his advisors? Has he been hiring the wrong people? Has he been working off of bad information? Was he just trying to be optimistic? This is a small example of the hundreds (if not thousands) of mistakes he has made over the past couple months regarding this pandemic. He needs to take responsibility for them and explain why he keeps getting it wrong.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

How do you blame Don Trump for a wordwide pandemic that originated in China?

Would you blame him for an earthquake in California, or a tornado in Nebraska?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Mark17

How do you blame Don Trump for a wordwide pandemic that originated in China?

Would you blame him for an earthquake in California, or a tornado in Nebraska?

I don’t blame him for the pandemic, I blame him for his response and his administration’s response. That’s obvious.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I don’t blame him for the pandemic, I blame him for his response and his administration’s response. That’s obvious.

Just make sure to blame him if the economy bounces back too.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Just make sure to blame him if the economy ounces back too.

I doubt it’ll happen before the end of his term, but of course. If Trump is able to recover from these incredible gaffes, he deserves credit.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Just make sure to blame him if the economy bounces back too.

Considering he took all the credit for the increases in the dow and SP 500 - which were on a 7 year bull run when he was sworn in - I think he needs to own those indexes now.

I think he also needs to take ownership of the debt he piled on the past 4 years. Close to 1 trillion per year deficits in the best of times - classic case of not saving for a rainy day - and because od that his 2020 debt is going to be epic, 2-4T.

So ya, he owns the economy good or bad. As of today his legacy is the indexes at same levels he was sworn in at, and 3 trillion in new debt. By end of year he is likely looking at worst spike of unemployment since the great depression and 4-6 trillion in new debt.

His legacy IMO is going to be brutal.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by japhi

Considering he took all the credit for the increases in the dow and SP 500 - which were on a 7 year bull run when he was sworn in - I think he needs to own those indexes now.

I think he also needs to take ownership of the debt he piled on the past 4 years. Close to 1 trillion per year deficits in the best of times - classic case of not saving for a rainy day - and because od that his 2020 debt is going to be epic, 2-4T.

So ya, he owns the economy good or bad. As of today his legacy is the indexes at same levels he was sworn in at, and 3 trillion in new debt. By end of year he is likely looking at worst spike of unemployment since the great depression and 4-6 trillion in new debt.

His legacy IMO is going to be brutal.

Let's revisit in 4-1/2 years when he's no longer President.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Let's revisit in 4-1/2 years when he's no longer President.

I get the feeling you would like this card. One of my favorites.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Sure, there may be some people who share portions of the blame, but a leader is held accountable for the people he leads. I know it’s popular to pass blame in today’s culture, but the man at the top always takes responsibility for the mess. That’s what comes with being a leader.

Since the center of the problem (ground zero in the US) is New York, how much of the responsibility lies with the mayor of that city, and the governor of that state? How prepared were they? What contingencies, and backup plans, did they have in place? Certainly New York is a wealthy state, and with high tax rates too. One would think they would have been well stocked with supplies and equipment, and with supply chains established in case of emergency.

New York, since September 2001, has known it was the prime target of terrorists. So they had the money, and the reason to expect the unexpected on a potentially massive scale. Bio-terrorism was always a possibility. How much responsibility lies with governor Cuomo?

And now that he has opposed quarantining his state, how much responsibility does he own, when frightened New Yorkers flee to other states, spreading this virus, and death, across the entire country?

Just curious as to your thoughts.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Since the center of the problem (ground zero in the US) is New York, how much of the responsibility lies with the mayor of that city, and the governor of that state? How prepared were they? What contingencies, and backup plans, did they have in place? Certainly New York is a wealthy state, and with high tax rates too. One would think they would have been well stocked with supplies and equipment, and with supply chains established in case of emergency.

New York, since September 2001, has known it was the prime target of terrorists. So they had the money, and the reason to expect the unexpected on a potentially massive scale. Bio-terrorism was always a possibility. How much responsibility lies with governor Cuomo?

And now that he has opposed quarantining his state, how much responsibility does he own, when frightened New Yorkers flee to other states, spreading this virus, and death, across the entire country?

Just curious as to your thoughts.

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

So Cuomo doesn't need to care about his inaction spreading disease and death to NJ, PA, CT, etc? Wow, sounds like a real patriot.

Cuomo could do the right thing for the country, Trump could over-ride Cuomo's selfish decision, and I'm not interested in debating what percentage of blame each shares. What I object to is some people, perhaps not you, trying to lay blame purely across political lines. This thing is new to everyone. Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people (including some of us, who don't isolate well, or take precautions, or don't test when we have symptoms.) It would be better if we could just pull together and pretend it isn't an election year.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So Cuomo doesn't need to care about his inaction spreading disease and death to NJ, PA, CT, etc? Wow, sounds like a real patriot.

Cuomo could do the right thing for the country, Trump could over-ride Cuomo's selfish decision, and I'm not interested in debating what percentage of blame each shares. What I object to is some people, perhaps not you, trying to lay blame purely across political lines. This thing is new to everyone. Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people (including some of us, who don't isolate well, or take precautions, or don't test when we have symptoms.) It would be better if we could just pull together and pretend it isn't an election year.

It has nothing to do with politics. We send a man to the White House to make the tough decisions that Governors don’t want to make. If that person is too scared to lead, he should step aside

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Mistakes will be made, and by a lot of people.

And will be admitted to and learned from by all but one, who shall go unnamed, and who instead will continue to blame others, lie about the state of things, pout if people do not kiss his ring, ignore experts in favor of sycophants, and, most of all, make sure it is all about him being in front of a camera.

[Dpeck100]

These Tyson's did great. The PSA 8 had 19 bidders and the PSA 9 20. Both are the UK back and not the actual rookie version with the Italian back.

So far in the stuff I collect prices are strong and in some cases even higher than a month ago.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/14355976533...torefresh=true


https://www.ebay.com/itm/40217252299...torefresh=true


Edit: A raw 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A set with terrible presentation and not overly nice key cards just went for $900. Nice!!!

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

These Tyson's did great. The PSA 8 had 19 bidders and the PSA 9 20. Both are the UK back and not the actual rookie version with the Italian back.

So far in the stuff I collect prices are strong and in some cases even higher than a month ago.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/14355976533...torefresh=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40217252299...torefresh=true


Edit: A raw 1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A set with terrible presentation and not overly nice key cards just went for $900. Nice!!!

I find it hard to believe, as someone in finance, that you think that posts like these are persuasive. This is akin to someone claiming that equities are performing well because xyz microcap is up 8% YTD. You would be laughed off any finance blogs for making a case like that.

Listen I get that you collect and are completely vested in pumping wrestling cards, I and appreciate your collection, but I’d be surprised if there were more then 50 hardcore wrestling card collectors. It is niche of a niche, a microscopic piece of the overall card market that tells us literally nothing about card prices.

If anyone is looking for a better data point, Acuna updates are selling at close to half their pre virus price. $300 down to $160 with each recent sale going lower. This is a heavily traded card - 15k cards graded by PSA alone - with 12k PSA 10s. Owned by thousands of collectors and is considered an investment grade card. Cards like this tell the story on where the market is going / is currently. If anyone actually cares.

And VCP in April and May is going to be fascinating. No asset class - and I cringe labeling most sportscards as assets - is going to be immune to 2 trillion is GDP disappearing and 8-12% unemployment. I just don’t see the hobby’s widest traded cards holding up to what looks like an economic blood bath.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

And will be admitted to and learned from by all but one, who shall go unnamed, and who instead will continue to blame others, lie about the state of things, pout if people do not kiss his ring, ignore experts in favor of sycophants, and, most of all, make sure it is all about him being in front of a camera.

This. Which is absolutely pathetic for a purported "leader."

[rats60]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think plenty of blame should be passed to Coumo and DeBlasio. I live in Manhattan and my girlfriend is a doctor treating COVID cases at the VA downtown as I write this. Coumo bears some responsibility. But, Trump has the power and right to overrule them, he’s choosing not to. Trump has the power to quarantine New York, declare Marshall Law, bring in the national guard, etc. Trump is making the choice not to. The Trump Administration is allowing New Yorkers to leave New York.

Of course Cuomo doesn’t want to Quarantine New York, Coumo’s allegiances lie with New Yorkers, not with the people of New Jersey, PA, CT, etc. It’s 100% Trump’s responsibility to quarantine if he believes it would help.

We can't stop people crossing the border with Mexico. Trying to close the borders of New York is impossible.

[ronniehatesjazz]

I know these are crazy times but isn't there a rule about no politics in this forum?

[packs]

It is far too late for any kind of quarantine. By this time next week the virus will have made its way around the country attached to people who are already where they are.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

I know these are crazy times but isn't there a rule about no politics in this forum?

I not taking any side

but i would think if someone were to criticize Trump, they also are saying that Hillary and/or Biden would be great. If they are not saying that, then its pretty empty to just say how things are bad.

If all of them are bad, really no reason to bad mouth any of them. Whats the point of criticizing with no solution.

[gawaintheknight]

This won't be a popular attitude here, but Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better. She has experience with healthcare policy, she has experience in the Senate, she has experience as Secretary of State, she has experience seeing how a non-dysfunctional White House works. All of that would be helpful, and Trump has none of it. She would not have cut funding for epidemic preparedness or eliminated government agencies that it now turns out are crucial for fighting the epidemic. She would have used the contingency plans the Obama administration created for dealing with epidemics rather than ignoring them and pretending everything was fine for months while the time to act decisively went by. She would have hired competent people and let them do their jobs. She would be actually trying to address the crisis instead of trying to threaten governors she didn't like and tweeting about how high her TV ratings were and trying to bully reporters who asked questions she didn't like. I could go on, but just on those points alone, there's a huge difference.

So, absolutely she would have been a lot better. She was one of the most qualified candidates in the history of the presidency, and she lost to one of the least qualified candidates, and, as they say, elections have consequences.

I'm sure there's a bunch of people here who are now never going to do business with me again, but that's fine.

Ted

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I not taking any side

but i would think if someone were to criticize Trump, they also are saying that Hillary and/or Biden would be great. If they are not saying that, then its pretty empty to just say how things are bad.

If all of them are bad, really no reason to bad mouth any of them. Whats the point of criticizing with no solution.

[drcy]

Putting aside moral debate, for the economy's sake itself you have to fix the coronas problem before the economy will rebound. If people are dying and scared to go to work and go the store, co-workers are getting the disease, the medical system is overloaded with patients, the economy will be damaged and sick even if everyone is allowed to go to work and mingle in society.

Thus, I think the "Let everyone go back to work and social life to save the economy" is an incorrect economic argument anyway.