T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with the Elite 11 subjects ……………..


I have been tracking the source of these Elite 11 cards since 2008, when I acquired a mid-size lot of T206's from an Antique dealer in Atlanta.
He told me that these cards were from an original collection in a town nearby Atlanta. This collection was strictly PIEDMONT cards; and, I was
pleasantly surprised to find 8 of the Elite 11 cards in this group.

Then approx. 7 years ago, another original collection of T206's was discovered in the Atlanta area. And, this collection included 7 Elite 11 cards.

Furthermore, 2 years ago Turner Engle (asoriano) reported here of an original collection from Georgia.. Georgia Find: 878 T205's and T206's
In this collection were four Elite 11 cards, including the very scarce Spencer card.

It appears that Factory #25 shipped PIEDMONT cigarette packs (containing 1st print run PIEDMONT 350 cards) to Georgia. I say this since some
of the Joe Doyle Nat'L cards have been found in T206 collections originating from Georgia. Best example of this is Senator Richard Russell's T206
collection. It is the first known source of the Elite 11 cards. Russell's original set also includes the Joe Doyle Nat'L card. Russell lived in Winder, a
town not far from Atlanta. He collected Tobacco cards as a teenager during 1909 - 1910.

To date, my records indicate that 4 original collections of T206's discovered in the surrounding area of Atlanta include the rare T206's that I refer
to as the Elite 11 cards.

Please chime in here if you have any of these Elite 11 cards of which you are certain of their provenance.

Thank you,


TED Z
.

[Ronnie73]

The Elite 11 card group is one of many favorites I have in the master front/back set. I'll have to dig the cards out and get some scans to post. I'm currently lacking Jones and Lundgren in Piedmont 350's and Dahlen in EPDG.

It might be time to do another survey on how many of these cards are out there. I know there have been some new discoveries since the last count was conducted. Population reports are not accurate at all. I know for a fact that Spencer in SGC, one was cracked and is currently raw and another was crossed over to PSA, David Hall's SGC 60 to a PSA 4.5.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

The Elite 11 card group is one of many favorites I have in the master front/back set. I'll have to dig the cards out and get some scans to post. I'm currently lacking Jones and Lundgren in Piedmont 350's and Dahlen in EPDG.

It might be time to do another survey on how many of these cards are out there. I know there have been some new discoveries since the last count was conducted. Population reports are not accurate at all. I know for a fact that Spencer in SGC, one was cracked and is currently raw and another was crossed over to PSA, David Hall's SGC 60 to a PSA 4.5.

Hi Ron

Thanks for chiming in here regarding this subject. It too, is one of my favorite group of T206 cards (as are the Exclusive 12 group).

And, your are correct that we can not depend on the pop reports to provide an accurate count on these Elite 11 cards. Every SGC graded card
which I have sold to David Hall is crossed over to PSA. And, what is interesting is that PSA for the most part gives him a lower grade than SGC.

However, the pop reports are useful in indicating the relative scarcity of the PIEDMONT 350 vs PIEDMONT 150 cards of these Elite 11 subjects.
For examples:

Ewing = 9 - PIEDMONT 350 vs 244 - PIEDMONT 150 cards.

Spencer = 6 - PIEDMONT 350 vs 243 - PIEDMONT 150 cards.


Yes, by all means show us your Elite 11 cards.


TED Z
.

[insidethewrapper]

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

Hi Mike

Last time I heard, David Hall's Master set comprises of 5200 - 5300 different T206's.

I don't have an exact number as of today.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with Schulte (front view)……………..


An astute Net54 reader emailed me, asking why I have not made mention of the Schulte card (with the PIEDMONT 350) back in this discussion ?
Well, until I have seen this Schulte with an El PRINCIPE de GALES (EPDG) back, I do not consider this Schulte as part of the Elite 11 group.

My guess is this lone Schulte card with a PIEDMONT 350 back is a printing anomaly. Furthermore, it is hand cut, therefore it's most likely a scrap.
If, and when, an EPDG card of Schulte is discovered then I will include it with the Elite 11 group. We will then refer to this group as the....Elite 12.
Till then, I continue to consider this Schulte as a 150-only Series subject.




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

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INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 805.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

Hi Mike

Citing David Hall's numbers from his Master T206 set is not really the best answer to your question......since, his set is not 100% complete. But, it's certainly very close.

Upon going thru my records, I figure that all the known (plus the predicted ones that have yet to be confirmed) front/back permutations result in a number very close to
5400 different T206's. This is still a work in progress for me.

The Blank-back T206's, of course, do not enter into any calculation here because of their randomness....and are therefore unpredictable.



TED Z
.