Hey, pennant guys

[perezfan]

OMG... never noticed that, Rob...

Yes, he should be holding that bat differently. Definitely an “R” rated pose.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

OMG... never noticed that, Rob...

Yes, he should be holding that bat differently. Definitely an “R” rated pose.

Speaking of which ... I always thought this one could have been done a tiny bit better

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of which ... I always thought this one could have been done a tiny bit better

Great post Greg! I've always cracked up at that one too...

Good thing the male bear's left leg isn't obscured behind the female's rear end. The artist was walking a very "fine line".

[Joe Hunter]

Picked up this rather unusual early St Louis Browns 9” mini pennant at an estate sale, today. What I found unusual was the grommets at the base of the pennant and the extra long tassels(one of which is missing.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Joe Hunter

Picked up this rather unusual early St Louis Browns 9” mini pennant at an estate sale, today. What I found unusual was the grommets at the base of the pennant and the extra long tassels(one of which is missing.

Very cool Browns Mini Pennant. When you see abnormally long tassels like that, you can pretty safely assume it was originally sold tied to a mini Bat (as a combination souvenir).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Joe Hunter

Picked up this rather unusual early St Louis Browns 9” mini pennant at an estate sale, today. What I found unusual was the grommets at the base of the pennant and the extra long tassels(one of which is missing.

Kyle, while you are at it please explain these grommeted pennants. Big mystery! In full size, we see this in the late 30s/early 40s St. Louis pennants, both Browns and Cards. But there are also versions that explicitly date back as far as 1919.

The design is very distinct ... perhaps the most distinct of any brand. Some were made without grommets but what they all have in common is no sewn on strip along the wide end. Would love to know some history with these

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Kyle, while you are at it please explain these grommeted pennants. Big mystery! In full size, we see this in the late 30s/early 40s St. Louis pennants, both Browns and Cards. But there are also versions that explicitly date back as far as 1919.

The design is very distinct ... perhaps the most distinct of any brand. Some were made without grommets but what they all have in common is no sewn on strip along the wide end. Would love to know some history with these

I find this design intriguing, too. So, there's two mysteries here. First, the maker. Seems like a case could be made for these being made by a local St. Louis manufacturer, since they mostly appear on Cards and Browns pennants--not Cubs or Tigers or others in that region of the country. But I can only think of one label for a St. Louis-based pennant maker I've ever encountered, and their name escapes me for the moment.

Next I looked through a bunch of vintage trade catalogues I have listing manufacturers of pennants and their locations. And I found one possible candidate identified as a maker of pennants: The St. Louis Button Co.

Preliminary research dates this company's reign to the period 1893-1948. So, that makes them contenders for really any of these grommetted pennants we've been discussing. As the name suggests, they specialized in pinbacks; but, they also made other novelty products. I can't confirm they ever made a felt pennant, but my experience tells me: they surely did. (Why else would a button company be listed in a ca. 1920 trade catalogue as a pennant maker, right?)

So I did some more sleuthing and found this listing for a mini pennant and pinback combo for the St. Louis Browns. The pinback features--I'm proud to have learned from Greg months ago--the Saint Louis IX of Franco logo! See: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...all-1964550666

Unlike the pennant, the pinback clearly identifies St. Louis Button Co. as its maker. Maybe this St. Louis of France logo was theirs? Perhaps the pennant was made by them, too. This pennant doesn't feature the same logo or grommets ... or even a painted spine; but, it is spineless, like others we think this company made were.

Unfortunately, all these grommetted pennants lacked any sewn label, right?

That brings me to the second mystery: why use grommets? That's a much easier question. Answer: costs. The most time consuming part of making a pennant is the sewing. If you can eliminate this from your manufacturing process, say by painting your graphics on, then you can make more pennants at a time using cheaper labor. This maker believed that decorative spines weren't essential. You could paint them on if the customer really insisted on that look. As to the grommets, without a spine, the consumer had to tack directly through the backfelt--and because it was no longer reinforced with a felt spine, it could tear. The metal grommet prevented this. Additionally, when punched through the backfelt, they could secure tassels. So, the grommets were a cost effective way of making a decent pennant without having to use a seamstress or sewing machine.

Which explains why this company omitted any sewn label, right?

Here's a page from Annin's ca. 1908 catalogue dedicated just to grommets. In the middle, you can see them offering "SETTING DYES FOR GROMMETS". Pictured therewith on the right side of the page is the device our pennant maker likely would have used to punch these grommets into the felt during the manufacturing process. (Sorry, I hate N54's photo attachment process ... no clue how to make this any bigger.)

By the way, Annin also made pennants and banners for many, many years. But they did use sewn labels (e.g., "A & Co. N.Y."). So I think we can rule them out.

Finally, here's a Notre Dame pennant that was likely made by this same manufacturer, ca. 1920s, I'd guess.

[ooo-ribay]

As always, Kyle, amazing “sleuthing.” I sincerely appreciate your efforts.....although I suspect you get a great deal of satisfaction out of it. I think we all enjoy solving our little mysteries.

As for the photo attachment....I think Net54 is one of the EASIEST sites when it comes to photos. For whatever reason, I am never plagued by the small and/or sideways pictures others experience. Are you on a real computer or your phone? I’ve had no problems with either, but 90% of the time I am using my desktop computer. Anything from 50 kb to <2 mb usually uploads to the same ~80 kb size. Plus, I like the “preview post” button to get a, duh, preview.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of which ... I always thought this one could have been done a tiny bit better

Ha! What’s the big deal...just bears being bears.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of which ... I always thought this one could have been done a tiny bit better

Yours is downright kid friendly...



Compared to this adults only version...

[SAllen2556]

Slightly used...but it's the rare Virgil Trucks version!

s-l1600-30.jpg

[thetahat]

So I’ve been collecting pennants for 20 years - vintage ones, that is. In my early days I owned this 1967 Pirates pennant, but one day I sold a bunch of pennants at a Show in Philly and this was among them. Always regretted it, and in the back of my mind wanted to secure another one of these at any reasonable cost. 15 years or so since ... never saw another, until a week ago. In fact I am not unconvinced this is the exact same pennant that worked it’s way back to me, I seem to recall similar flaws. (I wouldn’t bet on it though.) Seller described it as poor condition but it’s not bad at all, in fact there’s no fading nor missing paint, badly needed some ironing, some original defects in threading but in this case the fair/decent condition takes a backseat to its awesomeness. It is now my favorite pennant!

[bocca001]

That's a really cool Pirates pennant. It has a lot going for it. Love the colorful ship.

I wonder why it is so rare? Did the pirates have scroll pennants every year? I usually think of the scroll pennants as being for playoff teams.

[perezfan]

I don’t know why it’s so rare either. But I do love it. I’ve seen only two others in 30 years of collecting this stuff.

Saw it recently on eBay, but something intangible in my head told me not to bid. Now I know why...

It belongs in Greg’s collection. Im so glad it found the perfect home, and many congrats, Greg!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So I’ve been collecting pennants for 20 years - vintage ones, that is. In my early days I owned this 1967 Pirates pennant, but one day I sold a bunch of pennants at a Show in Philly and this was among them. Always regretted it, and in the back of my mind wanted to secure another one of these at any reasonable cost. 15 years or so since ... never saw another, until a week ago. In fact I am not unconvinced this is the exact same pennant that worked it’s way back to me, I seem to recall similar flaws. (I wouldn’t bet on it though.) Seller described it as poor condition but it’s not bad at all, in fact there’s no fading nor missing paint, badly needed some ironing, some original defects in threading but in this case the fair/decent condition takes a backseat to its awesomeness. It is now my favorite pennant!

Saw this and had a snipe set, but I was buying for resale. That is a very rare pennant and I agree the condition was solid. Nice pick up especially for the price.

[perezfan]

Chris...
That's a great one! Add it to the list of something they would never make today (in this tightly controlled environment of corporate-approved logos).

Marc...
Beautiful Santa Clara Pennants. Looks like a true labor of love that took many years to compile!