NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:33 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 316
Default

I think rather than taking $10 to crossover cards SGC should be offering to independently look at any cards and give their professional opinion as to whether the card has been altered. If it hasn’t they can crossover and if it has then the owner can go to PSA for recourse.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:35 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
I think rather than taking $10 to crossover cards SGC should be offering to independently look at any cards and give their professional opinion as to whether the card has been altered. If it hasn’t they can crossover and if it has then the owner can go to PSA for recourse.
Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:48 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?
You would think it is but I know I would pay a nice sum to have someone take a professional and unbiased look at my overpriced cardboard without necessarily being forced to cross them over.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:51 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
You would think it is but I know I would pay a nice sum to have someone take a professional and unbiased look at my overpriced cardboard without necessarily being forced to cross them over.
Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 01:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:55 PM
CuriousGeorge's Avatar
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
Ste.ven Lich.tman
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.
I think after we see what has gone on here they use the word “properly” very loosely.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-05-2019, 03:15 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.
Excellent point... that "side view" is really obscured by the slab.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:50 PM
tribefan's Avatar
tribefan tribefan is offline
m!ke kn@z@v!c
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?
Upcharges ONLY apply if the card "crosses" to the designated minimum grade or higher (we will always call for approval for any upcharge necessary).


sounds like $10 gets you a review, and if it meets your minimum grade or higher for crossover, you pay a little more? The regular grading fee?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:06 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default Old established problem, but suddenly it's now a crisis?

I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

Last edited by WhenItWasAHobby; 06-05-2019 at 02:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:07 PM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.
Who cares. It's happening now. The past does not define the present.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:31 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardtheory View Post
Who cares. It's happening now. The past does not define the present.
It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:33 PM
sportscardtheory sportscardtheory is offline
John Startleman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.
Okay, but it wasn't. Should it be ignored now because it wasn't taken care of earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:35 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.
Dan whatever became of our buddy Scottie Scissors?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:41 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Dan whatever became of our buddy Scottie Scissors?
No idea. Just faded into oblivion I suppose.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:07 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.
Holy sheet is that really you? How are you my friend?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:19 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Holy sheet is that really you? How are you my friend?
No major complaints here Peter. Just enjoying life outside of baseball cards.

I'm glad to see you're still here fighting for truth, justice and the American way.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:21 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
No major complaints here Peter. Just enjoying life outside of baseball cards.

I'm glad to see you're still here fighting for truth, justice and the American way.
89 degrees uphill I am afraid.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-05-2019, 05:45 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.
Hi Dan,
Welcome back to the board. A lot of us knew 10-15 years ago that altered cards were getting slabbed, and at an alarming rate. I know that when I told collectors about it, they thought it was just some harebrained idea, so most of us didn't publicize it. Now it's out in the open, which is a good thing. Maybe it will finally be properly addressed (not guaranteed).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:38 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Hi Dan,
Welcome back to the board. A lot of us knew 10-15 years ago that altered cards were getting slabbed, and at an alarming rate. I know that when I told collectors about it, they thought it was just some harebrained idea, so most of us didn't publicize it. Now it's out in the open, which is a good thing. Maybe it will finally be properly addressed (not guaranteed).
Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:48 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.
"SD" or "Stuff Disorder".
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-06-2019 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:58 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby View Post
Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance, or the power of the slab.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-06-2019, 01:53 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 7,335
Default

Hey Mr. Sloan, I still don't see this notice posted on the front page of your website... I'm sure you can get it done.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:10 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
I think rather than taking $10 to crossover cards SGC should be offering to independently look at any cards and give their professional opinion as to whether the card has been altered. If it hasn’t they can crossover and if it has then the owner can go to PSA for recourse.
You cant properly examine a card in a slab.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:30 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
You cant properly examine a card in a slab.
Of course not but so what. A partial second opinion is better than none here.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-05-2019 at 02:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: 2 Christy Mathewson Books Pitcher Pollock & Second Base Sloan 1914 / 1917 Moonlight Graham Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 3 11-12-2018 10:43 AM
A response... Aquarian Sports Cards Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 11 10-30-2017 06:35 AM
FSH - 1972 Icee Bear PSA - Maravich, Havlicek, Sloan and Carr Blwilson2 Basketball / Cricket / Tennis Cards Forum 0 09-30-2017 10:14 AM
Fs: Topps Baseball Books by Price Stern Sloan greenmonster66 Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 6 04-07-2016 07:29 AM
1917 Mathewson Book Second Base Sloan bbcard1 Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once. 10 07-18-2011 11:02 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:56 AM.


ebay GSB