PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

I think rather than taking $10 to crossover cards SGC should be offering to independently look at any cards and give their professional opinion as to whether the card has been altered. If it hasn’t they can crossover and if it has then the owner can go to PSA for recourse.

Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?

You would think it is but I know I would pay a nice sum to have someone take a professional and unbiased look at my overpriced cardboard without necessarily being forced to cross them over.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

You would think it is but I know I would pay a nice sum to have someone take a professional and unbiased look at my overpriced cardboard without necessarily being forced to cross them over.

Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.

I think after we see what has gone on here they use the word “properly” very loosely.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ah got it. Well, it's a good idea, I would convey it to SGC. One issue though is any in slab review is limited in its ability to see the edges. In fact I often question how the TPGs really can do cross-overs properly with the cards in slabs.

Excellent point... that "side view" is really obscured by the slab.

[tribefan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Isn't an authenticity review implicit here?

Upcharges ONLY apply if the card "crosses" to the designated minimum grade or higher (we will always call for approval for any upcharge necessary).


sounds like $10 gets you a review, and if it meets your minimum grade or higher for crossover, you pay a little more? The regular grading fee?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.

Who cares. It's happening now. The past does not define the present.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Who cares. It's happening now. The past does not define the present.

It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.

Okay, but it wasn't. Should it be ignored now because it wasn't taken care of earlier.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

It should have been dealt with twelve years ago when I approached PSA Customer Service about the problem and other times since and consequently more than likely tens of thousands of altered cards have been sold to unsuspecting collectors and the cards will exist longer than the collectors and just be repeatedly sold and bought with no knowledge of the alterations.

Dan whatever became of our buddy Scottie Scissors?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dan whatever became of our buddy Scottie Scissors?

No idea. Just faded into oblivion I suppose.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.

Holy sheet is that really you? How are you my friend?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Holy sheet is that really you? How are you my friend?

No major complaints here Peter. Just enjoying life outside of baseball cards.

I'm glad to see you're still here fighting for truth, justice and the American way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

No major complaints here Peter. Just enjoying life outside of baseball cards.

I'm glad to see you're still here fighting for truth, justice and the American way.

89 degrees uphill I am afraid.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I've been on a hiatus of sorts for the past four years or so, but just happened to look at the message board for old time sake and noticed the proliferation of threads regarding altered PSA cards. Needless to say, it should have not come as a surprise to me. Why it now seems like a scandal is perplexing.

I thought the issue of a substantial amount of altered cards being systematically slabbed and graded by PSA is old news going back at least 10 years. Was it just skepticism in the past and now it's an irrefutable crisis? What am I missing?

As for PSA's response regarding altered cards, based on my past experience, one should be cynical regarding PSA's disturbing history of dealing with the problem.

Hi Dan,
Welcome back to the board. A lot of us knew 10-15 years ago that altered cards were getting slabbed, and at an alarming rate. I know that when I told collectors about it, they thought it was just some harebrained idea, so most of us didn't publicize it. Now it's out in the open, which is a good thing. Maybe it will finally be properly addressed (not guaranteed).

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Hi Dan,
Welcome back to the board. A lot of us knew 10-15 years ago that altered cards were getting slabbed, and at an alarming rate. I know that when I told collectors about it, they thought it was just some harebrained idea, so most of us didn't publicize it. Now it's out in the open, which is a good thing. Maybe it will finally be properly addressed (not guaranteed).

Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.

"SD" or "Stuff Disorder".

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Hi Barry,

Nice to hear from you.

Your experience back then was the same as mine. My observation over several years with piles of evidence to prove it was that collectors who initially bought graded cards as a safeguard to prevent buying altered cards were later well aware of the prolific problem of doctored cards in slabs yet still continued to buy the graded cards anyway. It was mind boggling, but I've since learned that this psychological disorder is called cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance, or the power of the slab.

[swarmee]

Hey Mr. Sloan, I still don't see this notice posted on the front page of your website... I'm sure you can get it done.

[swarmee]

List of things I'd like PSA to do:
1) Publish the entire list of Moser's submissions and decertify them from the pop report. In the case the proven "before" card was also PSA slabbed, remove that cert from the pop report as well.
2) Inform the public that this was done. SMR Magazine, Set Registry banquet at National, front page of your website. Have a returns line set up at the National for your aggrieved customers.
3) Get PWCC to pay for as much as they can afford.
4) Pay for the rest. It seems your company has not done a reliable job of this in the past; I have seen references to collectors having to "fight tooth and nail" to get reimbursed. This is the kind of thing that will only increase the bad press.
5) Open up your "internal investigation" to an independent auditor. As a publicly traded company, this makes sense, right?
6) Are you and Brent really working with any law enforcement? If so, why has the agency not been named?
7) Name the other "isolated bad actors" that still submit to PSA and decertify their cards. We're at the beginning of a Set Registry year; collectors will have 11 months to refill their sets with cards to replace their fraudulent ones.
8) Retrain your employees. The amount of various alterations detected so far has been vast: trimming, pressing out creases, recoloring, stain removal, claims of reglossing, rebuilding of corners, adding of rough cuts. Reject undersized cards as Minsize. Tighten up the minsiz requirements for sets like T206, 1952 Look N See, etc. Figure out how Moser beat you and think like him to figure out where PSA is sloppy. Maybe start a white-hat submission program to submit cards to your staff anonymously to see if they catch the alterations you claim you can.
9) Add a historical search for cards to your authentication step. Look for cards that have been photographed already on the internet. This will add personnel costs and timeline to your service, but it's required to regain trust. Otherwise, the scandal will continue to occur. Edit: I realize this will restrict you from doing any on-site grading. So be it. Accuracy is more important than speed; surely you agree.
10) Openly disavow (or approve) Brent's Marketplace Tenets. Disavowing them will show that you believe in the collector's agreement with PSA's longstanding definitions of card alteration. If you approve them, you'll have to explain why the company failed so miserably and confirm that if you can't detect alterations, you'll have to concede your corporate expertise lacks.