Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

vintagetoppsguy · #1 05-30-2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Maybe it's easier to just blame PWCC because most around here didn't like them to begin with. But if PSA is unable to determine what cards have been altered, and can't even determine if modern cards have been trimmed, what are we paying them all of this money for?

I've asked that question too, but can't seem to get an answer. If you were hired to do a job and you couldn't do it for whatever reason - you didn't have the staff to execute the job, you didn't have enough time to execute the job, you simply don't know how to execute the job - whatever reason - would you take the customer's money anyway? I hope the answer would be no. So why does PSA continue to do it? Why are they taking customer's money if they can't detect alterations? I'm sorry but, to me, taking money for a job you can't do is way more fraudulent than what people are accusing PWCC of doing.

Goudey77 · #2 05-30-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've asked that question too, but can't seem to get an answer. If you were hired to do a job and you couldn't do it for whatever reason - you didn't have the staff to execute the job, you didn't have enough time to execute the job, you simply don't know how to execute the job - whatever reason - would you take the customer's money anyway? I hope the answer would be no. So why does PSA continue to do it? Why are they taking customer's money if they can't detect alterations? I'm sorry but, to me, taking money for a job you can't do is way more fraudulent than what people are accusing PWCC of doing.

David,
If I could give you a fist bump I would.

vintagebaseballcardguy · #3 05-30-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've asked that question too, but can't seem to get an answer. If you were hired to do a job and you couldn't do it for whatever reason - you didn't have the staff to execute the job, you didn't have enough time to execute the job, you simply don't know how to execute the job - whatever reason - would you take the customer's money anyway? I hope the answer would be no. So why does PSA continue to do it? Why are they taking customer's money if they can't detect alterations? I'm sorry but, to me, taking money for a job you can't do is way more fraudulent than what people are accusing PWCC of doing.

I have pondered this for years also, David. The best I can figure, the registry has continued to drive the PSA machine...which I know isn't news. Also, many people stopped collecting cards in exchange for flips a long time ago.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

perezfan · #4 05-30-2019, 04:47 PM

Agree with David... it’s criminal.

frankbmd · #5 05-30-2019, 05:09 PM

The underworld is not transparent.

Show me the Card Fax.

Is buying a used card that different from buying a used car?

One benefits from the “repair” history of the car before the purchase.

Does the card doctor proudly put a sticker on the card to document his fine work?

Does the auction house reference their prior sale of the same card when the “altered and graded” card is relisted by the same auction house and have the gall to add a sticker that the card doctor omitted?

Does the grader acknowledge that the same, now altered, card has previously received a lower grade? Shouldn’t he know, even if there is no money passed under the table?

Do you really want to spend $10000, $20000 or more on a card without this information to garner an elite status gold star on a registry? Apparently many do.

To try to absolve any of the involved entities of guilt, by placing the blame on one of the others, is the pot calling the kettle black or vice versa. Are all the parties colluding in the scheme? Perhaps not to the same degree, but they are at least complicit.

If there was a true whistle blower at any of the stops along the way, the fraud would be uncovered. Blowout and Net54 both have members no doubt with skin in the game. But Redefining fraud to absolve oneself of guilt seems by most to be an insufficient tactic. To remain silent and wait for the wind to blow this away may be successful, but does not mean the fraud isn’t happening.

Disclaimer: I have never seen a Car Fax, or had any dealing with them

I would buy a 1992 Toyota without one, but would be more careful in the purchase of my Rolls Royce or Bentley.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 05-30-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The underworld is not transparent.

Show me the Card Fax.

Is buying a used card that different from buying a used car?

One benefits from the “repair” history of the car before the purchase.

Does the card doctor proudly put a sticker on the card to document his fine work?

Does the auction house reference their prior sale of the same card when the “altered and graded” card is relisted by the same auction house and have the gall to add a sticker that the card doctor omitted?

Does the grader acknowledge that the same, now altered, card has previously received a lower grade? Shouldn’t he know, even if there is no money passed under the table.

Do you really want to spend $10000, $20000 or more on a card without this information to garner an elite status gold star on a registry? Apparently many do.

To try to absolve any of the involved entities of guilt, by placing the blame on one of the others, is the pot calling the kettle black or vice versa. Are all the parties colluding in the scheme? Perhaps not to the same degree, but they are at least complicit.

If there was a true whistle blower at any of the stops along the way, the fraud would be uncovered. Blowout and Net54 both have members no doubt with skin in the game. But Redefining fraud to absolve oneself of guilt seems by most to be an insufficient tactic. To remain silent and wait for the wind to blow this away may be successful, but does not mean the fraud isn’t happening.

Disclaimer: I have never seen a Car Fax, or had any dealing with them

I would buy a 1992 Toyota without one, but would be more careful in the purchase of my Rolls Royce or Bentley.

Kinda

EDIT: Shoulda seen it coming. I posted before I got to the next line.

Bigdaddy · #7 05-30-2019, 08:58 PM

I've always been an Eagles fan (the band, not the football team) and methinks Glenn Frey hit the nail on the head when he sang (from Smuggler's Blues):

"thre's lots of shady characters
lots of dirty deals
ev'ry name's an alias
in case somebody squeals
it's the lure of easy money
it's gotta very strong appeal"

I think every line of this chorus applies to this mess. From PSA to PWCC to Moser and the other trimmers to eBay aliases and shilling to the exponential difference in prices of high grade cards (PSA 8-10). Though we own that last one.

ullmandds · #8 05-30-2019, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I've always been an Eagles fan (the band, not the football team) and methinks Glenn Frey hit the nail on the head when he sang (from Smuggler's Blues):

"thre's lots of shady characters
lots of dirty deals
ev'ry name's an alias
in case somebody squeals
it's the lure of easy money
it's gotta very strong appeal"

I think every line of this chorus applies to this mess. From PSA to PWCC to Moser and the other trimmers to eBay aliases and shilling to the exponential difference in prices of high grade cards (PSA 8-10). Though we own that last one.

its those smugggglers blues!!!!!

bobbyw8469 · #9 05-30-2019, 09:42 PM

Oh lord...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2342

They really blew the color job on that one.

perezfan · #10 05-30-2019, 09:50 PM

And we�re supposed to believe PSA really missed that??

Seriously, if there�s a company who�s worse at the ONE THING they�re supposed to do, I�d love to know who it is. Nice job, PSA!

I know we�ve already said it�s the �tip of the iceberg�. But I�m honestly losing count of these now.

frankbmd · #11 05-30-2019, 09:52 PM

Does PSA remove the pre-altered grade from their pop report when they add the grade of the altered version of the same card?

Pop Report enthusiasts should consider this when touting their pops.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 05-30-2019, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Oh lord...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2342

They really blew the color job on that one.

yuck

tschock · #13 05-31-2019, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Oh lord...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2342

They really blew the color job on that one.

That's a pretty quick turnaround time for a sale, doctoring, reslab, and resale. 4 months. Hmmmm....

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